Tool Talk

Classic Auto and Motorcycle Tools => Classic Auto and Motorcycle Tools => Topic started by: Jim C. on November 25, 2018, 05:54:08 PM

Title: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: Jim C. on November 25, 2018, 05:54:08 PM
I know that somewhere along the line, in one thread or another, I mentioned that I had gotten hooked on older Sears/Craftsman tools produced during the late 1950s to late 1960s.  The tools I’m most interested in have a pointed letter “A” in the word Craftsman, and have a =V= manufacturer’s mark.  Those were the tools I grew up with and to some extent still use today on certain projects.

Although it’s not my only research resource, I frequently consult the 1960 Craftsman Hand Tools Catalog.  Looking at old catalogs is a great way to see what was included in various sets, and a good way put a time frame on when various tools and sets were offered by Sears.  Well, at some point while I was thumbing through that 1960 catalog, I noticed Sears offered Whitworth sized tools specifically for use on British made vehicles.  For whatever reason, I thought it would be fun to collect that set. So my quest began.

Prior to launching my search, I did review several old Craftsman catalogs, which was easy to do using David Mahar’s two disc set of Craftsman catalogs, to determine when and for approximately how long, Sears offered Whitworth tools.  Unless I missed something (which is entirely possible) I believe Craftsman branded Whitworth sockets and wrenches only appeared in the 1960 catalog.  Sears also offered a Craftsman branded Whitworth tap and die set in the same 1960 catalog.  While I did not see any Craftsman branded Whitworth tools of any kind in the 1961 catalog, the Whitworth tap and die set was again advertised in the 1962 catalog.  After 1962, I’m not aware of Sears offering any Craftsman branded Whitworth tools.  Again, I’m strictly going by what I saw, or did not see, in the Sears catalogs. 

Needless to say, the set was a little challenging to complete.  The four DOE wrenches, four DBE wrenches, and ten 1/2” drive sockets are distinctly stamped with a “W” which make them easy to spot.  The trouble is finding them.  Of course eBay was a possible source, and I did find some of the tools there.  Still, my best luck came at an MG automobile / British motorcycle swap meet.   At the one meet alone, I found several sockets and all four DOE wrenches.  Based on my experience, and having zero data to back it up, it’s my opinion that the DOE wrenches seem to be more available than the DBE wrenches.  It’s also my opinion that the smaller size sockets seem to be more available than the larger sizes.  Tracking down that 3/4 W socket seemed like it took forever.

Don’t let the rest of the set fool you. All the tools are 1/2” drive, and seem pretty straight forward.  Granted, the correct speed wrench is fairly common as are the 10” and 6” extensions.  The 15” breaker bar is obtainable without too much trouble, but don’t forget the T handle that accompanies the breaker bar.  That can be tricky, and was one of the last tools I needed to complete the set.  I thank site member “coolford” for helping me out with that one.  Also look at the ratchet.  If you kept up with the Craftsman Teardrop Ratchet (1956 - 1993) Type Study, you’ll notice it’s a Type 1.  Again, not impossible to find, but some vigilance will be required for sure.  Finally, don’t forget the tool box.  That style shows up now and then on eBay, which is were I found the one depicted, but their condition is often really rough.  Good ones in original condition are tough to find.  Trust me, I had to duke it out with other bidders for that one. 

It’s definitely a tough set to complete, but certainly not impossible.  Now all I gotta do is find an original condition 1950s MG so I can use the tools.

Jim C.
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: amecks on November 25, 2018, 08:44:55 PM
Wow Jim!  As a British motorcycle enthusiast I can appreciate the value of those tools.  I was not aware that they were sold as a set - with a tool box.  Last year at our club swap meet my friend Hunter spotted some box end wrenches (was it 3 or 4 I forget), the Craftsmans in your set.  I think he bought them for $2 each.  It was an eye opener for me and I've been more aware that they are still out there, and watching for them.
Al
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: Yadda on November 25, 2018, 09:21:57 PM
That is a beautiful little set.  Beware the desire to restore MG's.  In my limited experience, They are inexpensive to purchase, but expensive to restore and maintain.  I watched a buddy of mine sink over $6k into purchasing and restoring an MG only to later sell it for $2,500. No doubt he enjoyed every minute of the rebuild process and chasing down parts, but monetarily he never came in sight of break even.
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: Papaw on November 25, 2018, 09:30:25 PM
Years ago I owned and enjoyed a 1960 MGA I was already working on English motorcycles, so I had the proper wrenches.
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: papadan on November 25, 2018, 11:26:20 PM
I never knew Craftsman had any British standard tools. In the late 70s, I had to order a set of wrenches and sockets from a Snap-On dealer. I restored a 53 MGTD roadster and there were some fasteners that could not be turned with standard or metric tools. I have not touched those tools since 1980. 
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: Lostmind on November 26, 2018, 07:49:06 AM
I worked at a MG dealer when I was in my 20's ( long ago ).
I remember owning one Whitworth tool. I managed to use 6 point US tools somehow. And adjustable wrenches.
Very simple cars compared to today. My Riding lawn mower is more complicated to work on.
We also had Volvo then , first in the area, much better car the MG
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: Jim C. on November 26, 2018, 11:52:25 AM
Wow Jim!  As a British motorcycle enthusiast I can appreciate the value of those tools.  I was not aware that they were sold as a set - with a tool box.  Last year at our club swap meet my friend Hunter spotted some box end wrenches (was it 3 or 4 I forget), the Craftsmans in your set.  I think he bought them for $2 each.  It was an eye opener for me and I've been more aware that they are still out there, and watching for them.
Al

Hey Al,

My initial searches were strictly on eBay, and I did have some luck there.  The trouble is that the starting bids are usually at the very high end of being considered reasonable, and occasionally beyond that.  Factor in other bidders, and suddenly the tools are insanely priced.  Don’t forget to add in shipping costs too.  In terms of finding the Whitworth tools, the swap meet was the way to go.  There, one is dealing directly, eye to eye, with the seller.  You can haggle a little and typically end up with a handshake and a fair price.  As for some of the other drive tools, and particularly the tool box itself, eBay is probably the only place one would ever find such a thing.  I ended up going to eBay for the DBE wrenches too.  Again, I’m not sure if it’s true or not, but during my quest to complete the set, it seemed that the DOE wrenches were far more available than were the DBE wrenches.  In terms of buying the sockets, well, like I said, I got nine out ten at the swap meet.  The guy I bought them from was missing the 3/4 W (largest in the set).  I figured I’d find one eventually.  The smaller sizes showed up on eBay with some regularity, but not the larger ones.  It took more than two years to find the 3/4 W.  I guess I should have waited for a set of ten.  I’ve seen them on eBay, but they generally sell for $150 or more.  If they’re in their original green metal box with the breaker bar and T handle, they can go for $300+.  Anyway, I have a couple more things to show you, so stay tuned.

Jim C. 
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: Jim C. on November 26, 2018, 12:03:28 PM
That is a beautiful little set.  Beware the desire to restore MG's.  In my limited experience, They are inexpensive to purchase, but expensive to restore and maintain.  I watched a buddy of mine sink over $6k into purchasing and restoring an MG only to later sell it for $2,500. No doubt he enjoyed every minute of the rebuild process and chasing down parts, but monetarily he never came in sight of break even.

Hey Yadda,

Thanks for checking out the thread.  I’ve been down that road more than once or twice with a few old Corvettes.  But to be honest, I never bought any of those cars, and then dumped a little more money into them, thinking I’d get it all back.  It never happened.  But like your friend, I really enjoyed tinkering with them and getting them exactly the way I wanted them to be.  A house, college educations, etc. caused me to sell them.  I think once one goes into fully committed “sell mode” and mentally divorces him/her self from something, like a car, the process isn’t too bad, even if coming out ahead isn’t going to happen.  It certainly won’t stop me from buying another car, dumping some money into it, and eventually selling at a loss......again!   :smiley:

Jim C.
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: Jim C. on November 26, 2018, 12:13:00 PM
Years ago I owned and enjoyed a 1960 MGA I was already working on English motorcycles, so I had the proper wrenches.

Hi Papaw,

The guy I bought the Whitworth DOE wrenches and sockets from was a hardcore British motorcycle enthusiast.  He never owned a British automobile (even though the swap meet was advertised as an MG event).  He recalled buying the tools at Sears in the 1960s and keeping them all those years.  Now in his late seventies, he told me he was starting to “lighten the load.”

Jim C.
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: Jim C. on November 26, 2018, 12:15:46 PM
I never knew Craftsman had any British standard tools. In the late 70s, I had to order a set of wrenches and sockets from a Snap-On dealer. I restored a 53 MGTD roadster and there were some fasteners that could not be turned with standard or metric tools. I have not touched those tools since 1980.

Papadan,

At least you did use your Whitworth tools at some point.  To date, I haven’t used a single one of mine. :grin:

Jim C.
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: Jim C. on November 26, 2018, 12:27:35 PM
........Very simple cars compared to today. My Riding lawn mower is more complicated to work on....

Okay, so that’s good to know.  I guess I’ll come clean.  In my original post, I ended by saying that I needed to find an old MG, so I could use my little collection of Whitworth tools.  Well, I do have my eye on a “survivor” 100% original, unrestored, unmolested, still running, 1955 MG.  The car belongs to my uncle.  He bought it in 1959 from his college roommate, who bought it new in 1955.  I’ve talked to him about selling me that car FOR DECADES!  Now in his early eighties, I think he’s getting close to parting with it.  My aunt keeps telling him to sell it.  He keeps telling me I’ll have the first shot at it.  We shall see! 

Jim C.
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: Papaw on November 26, 2018, 12:35:14 PM
I hope you get that one, Jim!
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: Jim C. on November 26, 2018, 12:46:21 PM
I hope you get that one, Jim!

Me too!  I used to go for rides in that car as a kid.  I’ve been talking to my uncle about that car for the last thirty years.  He swears I’ll have the first shot at it.  In the last year or so, he seems like he’s really thinking about letting it go.  I’m hopeful, and have already promised him that I would NEVER restore the car, or alter it in any way.  It’s a true survivor, and I’ll leave it that way if I can buy it.  I’ll keep you posted.

Jim C.

Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: papadan on November 26, 2018, 02:12:47 PM
I hope you get that survivor Jim. When I rebuilt my TD it was with the knowledge of who was wanting one in completely restored condition. I bought it for $400, spent $2100 on parts and materials, sold it for $7k. I figured out that I made about $20 an hour building it. Never get rich, but always had a lot of fun. I only sold one car that I have always regretted, but had no choice at the time, my Shaggin Waggin, 57 Nomad. Now it's too late to get another one.
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: Jim C. on November 26, 2018, 04:35:53 PM
I hope you get that survivor Jim. When I rebuilt my TD it was with the knowledge of who was wanting one in completely restored condition. I bought it for $400, spent $2100 on parts and materials, sold it for $7k. I figured out that I made about $20 an hour building it. Never get rich, but always had a lot of fun. I only sold one car that I have always regretted, but had no choice at the time, my Shaggin Waggin, 57 Nomad. Now it's too late to get another one.

Oh man Dan, I feel your pain!  I had a 1966 Corvette with factory knock offs, original motor, trans, paint, etc.  I was the second owner and really lamented seeing that one go after owning it for fourteen years.  With a growing family and in need of a bigger house, well, you know the rest of the story.  That’s how it goes. 

Jim C. 
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: amecks on November 26, 2018, 07:41:53 PM
At least as good as owning a true survivor is owning one that's been in the family.  We'll keep our fingers crossed!

I did not have British wrenches until ten years after I bought my first Triumph 650 in 1974.  I managed to somehow afford to buy a complete set of Snap-On British Standard combos and complete sets of 1/4 and 3/8 drive BS sockets.  I have all but the largest sizes in T Williams Superslim wrenches and my latest purchase is a complete set of T Williams chrome plated Superslim ring spanners (Double Box Ends).  I like using the Superslims - they have a good feel and are long enough to give good leverage.
Since coming to own the '67 Royal Enfield Interceptor 750 in 2010 I have got more use out of the British tools than ever.  ALL the bolts on the Enfield are British Standard and require BS wrenches.
Al
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: papadan on November 26, 2018, 09:36:06 PM
I don't have any 1/4" sockets, mine are 3/8" up to what they call a 9/16" size, then they are 1/2" drive for the larger ones. Most of my tools are packed away. I know I have them and where they are, but I have not even seen them in almost 20 years. Like all my Diesel tools, haven't used them in 30+ years and not seen them in 20. But if needed, I know where they are and what box they are in.
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: Jim C. on November 27, 2018, 02:35:04 PM
At least as good as owning a true survivor is owning one that's been in the family.  We'll keep our fingers crossed!

I did not have British wrenches until ten years after I bought my first Triumph 650 in 1974.  I managed to somehow afford to buy a complete set of Snap-On British Standard combos and complete sets of 1/4 and 3/8 drive BS sockets.  I have all but the largest sizes in T Williams Superslim wrenches and my latest purchase is a complete set of T Williams chrome plated Superslim ring spanners (Double Box Ends).  I like using the Superslims - they have a good feel and are long enough to give good leverage.
Since coming to own the '67 Royal Enfield Interceptor 750 in 2010 I have got more use out of the British tools than ever.  ALL the bolts on the Enfield are British Standard and require BS wrenches.
Al

Hey Al,

I hope I end up getting the MG!  I’ll let you know if it happens. Those Snap On tools must have set you back a few bucks, but I’ll bet they’re a pleasure to use.  I’m all for buying and using high end tools if you can do it.  I have only a few Snap On tools and gotta say, the quality is evident.  If you’d like to post a few pictures of your Whitworth tools, I’d like to see them.  I’m pretty sure some of the others reading along would like to see them too.  If you get some time, let’s see what you have!

Jim C.
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: Jim C. on November 27, 2018, 02:40:35 PM
I don't have any 1/4" sockets, mine are 3/8" up to what they call a 9/16" size, then they are 1/2" drive for the larger ones. Most of my tools are packed away. I know I have them and where they are, but I have not even seen them in almost 20 years. Like all my Diesel tools, haven't used them in 30+ years and not seen them in 20. But if needed, I know where they are and what box they are in.

Hey papadan,

After twenty years, maybe it’s time to pull out that box of Whitworth tools and take a look at them.......and show us too!!! :smiley:
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: papadan on November 27, 2018, 07:05:26 PM
I worked 40 years as a mechanic. I always preffered Craftsman wrenches over Snap-On. For daily use the S-O have a much thinner side edge and with a lot of use they start to hurt.
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: Jim C. on November 28, 2018, 12:56:43 PM
I worked 40 years as a mechanic. I always preffered Craftsman wrenches over Snap-On. For daily use the S-O have a much thinner side edge and with a lot of use they start to hurt.

Hey Dan,

That’s certainly the voice of experience talking!  40 years!  I’m mostly a Craftsman fan myself.  Practically everyone I knew had Craftsman tools. When I say “everyone” I’m referring to my dad, uncles, friends dads, neighbors...... none of whom were pro techs.  They all had Craftsman tools probably because they were easy to obtain, easy to warranty if necessary, and relatively affordable in comparison to some of the truck brands.  So, that’s what I grew up seeing and using.  My dad was also a Sears employee for many years, so the additional 10% employee discount didn’t hurt either.  Over the years I tinkered with my share of old cars, several old woodworking machines, and engaged in more DIYer projects than I can recall, mostly using Craftsman tools.  I really can’t complain about them.  Still, I know a lot of guys are die hard Snap On users.  Snap On offers some really nice, high quality stuff.  No doubt about it.  I will say that you’re probably one of the few pros that I’m aware of who picked Craftsman over Snap On in terms of comparing their comfort and user friendliness.

Jim C.

Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: papadan on November 28, 2018, 08:52:21 PM
Most of my basic hand tools have always been Craftsman for just the reasons you listed. Snap-On are great tools, but over priced, I bought S O specialty tools that Craftsman never offered. Or at least didn't offer that I knew of, like the Whitworths.
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: Jim C. on November 29, 2018, 07:23:38 PM
Hey papadan,

It’s no surprise that you didn’t know about Sears/Craftsman Whitworth tools way back when.  As far as I can tell, they were only offered from about 1960 to 1962, and the offerings were limited.  There were four DOE wrenches, four DBE wrenches (the same sizes as the DOE wrenches) and ten standard depth, 12 point, sockets.  The tools were sold as a complete set as depicted above, and as smaller sets, or individually.  One could buy the set of four DOE wrenches in a green plastic roll, the set of four DBE wrenches also in a green plastic roll, or the ten sockets with a 15” breaker bar including the T handle in a green metal case.  The sockets, breaker bar and T handle were fitted into a red plastic insert.  Finally, all eighteen Whitworth tools were sold individually. 

Studying the old Sears/Craftsman catalogs, it appears that during the same time period, Sears also offered a Craftsman branded Whitworth tap and die set.  I don’t think any of the Whitworth taps or dies were sold separately.  To get them, I think one would have to buy the entire set.  The set came in a green plastic case, and the tools were fitted in red plastic inserts.  It’s a super tough set to find in any condition.  I’ve only seen it once.

Jim C.
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: Jim C. on December 01, 2018, 10:13:26 AM
I mentioned that Sears offered smaller, tool specific Craftsman branded Whitworth sets, versus the entire set shown above, so I think I should at least show you an example or two.  Depicted below is the four piece DOE wrench set in its original green plastic tool roll.  (Just to be sure, the wrenches depicted below are not the same wrenches shown in the complete set above.)  Since I started collecting Craftsman Whitworth tools, I've come across a few DOE wrench sets in their green plastic tool rolls.  As you may expect, after about 55 years or so, the plastic has become somewhat stiff and brittle.  It can crack if you're not careful.  I found that running the entire roll, wrenches and all, under warm water makes the plastic pliable enough to handle and consequently easier to remove the wrenches without damaging the plastic.  It'll stay pliable for about an hour and then start to stiffen up again..... just long enough to take a few pictures. 

Jim C.     
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: d42jeep on December 01, 2018, 03:43:37 PM
I used to work on British cars back in the dark ages (‘70s) and kind of wish I still had a 4 cyl big Healey like I had in high school. I have found a total of four Craftsman Whitworth socket in my travels although I doubt that I’ll ever use them.
-Don
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: Jim C. on December 01, 2018, 06:39:57 PM
Hey Don,

Your old Craftsman Whitworth sockets look like they’re in pretty good shape. While I was collecting my set, I ended up with a few extra, duplicate sockets, all 1/2 W size or smaller, like yours.  It was my experience that the larger Whitworth sizes were a lot harder to find individually.  If I was going to collect the set again, I might wait to find all ten sockets at once.  I looked for the 3/4 W for a couple years.  In SAE measurements, the 3/4 W is about the equivalent of 1 5/16”.  It’s big, and like the 1 5/16” socket, probably not as commonly used on automobiles and motorcycles as are the smaller sizes.  Maybe that’s why the larger sizes just don’t seem to be as available as the smaller sizes. 

Jim C.
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: papadan on December 01, 2018, 11:28:40 PM
Nice tools Jim, I use a hair dryer to warm up the plastic rolls and keep them from cracking. Don't have to worry about getting everything dried off.
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: Jim C. on December 02, 2018, 02:53:01 PM
I mentioned earlier that Sears also offered a Craftsman branded Whitworth tap and die set.  Well, here it is in its green plastic case with red plastic tool inserts.  Of all the Craftsman Whitworth tools offered by Sears, I'd say this set is by far the least common.  I've only seen the set one time (and bought it), and I've never seen any of the Whitworth taps or dies for sale individually.  I don't think Sears ever offered individual Whitworth taps and dies for sale separate from the set.  If one were to come across this set somewhere, and it was missing a tap and/or die, I think it would be next to impossible to find an original replacement.  Still, one never knows what will be found in the right setting, like at a British automobile or motorcycle swap meet, or simply getting lucky on eBay.

Jim C. 
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: Yadda on December 02, 2018, 07:10:18 PM
A nice set to see during the holiday season.
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: Jim C. on December 03, 2018, 06:21:59 AM
Green and Red.......I get it!!!!   :smiley:
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: d42jeep on December 03, 2018, 10:02:51 AM
It looks like it was supplied by Ace Hansen. It reminded me of my slightly newer Ace Hansen Tap and Die set. I found this image on a google search.
-Don
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: Jim C. on December 03, 2018, 05:54:11 PM
Hey Don,

As you know, Sears sourced its Craftsman branded tools from various manufacturers.  When it comes to taps and dies, Hansen seems like a logical supplier.  I do see some similarities between your Hansen set and my Craftsman set. 

Jim C.
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: Jim C. on December 03, 2018, 06:01:28 PM
Wow!!!!!  I just noticed that I have been bestowed a title!  When did that happen?  Thank you for the honor!  I don’t feel worthy of that.

Jim C.
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: Papaw on December 03, 2018, 08:46:07 PM
Wow!!!!!  I just noticed that I have been bestowed a title!  When did that happen?  Thank you for the honor!  I don’t feel worthy of that.

Jim C.
I did that a week or two ago, and you deserve it !
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: Jim C. on December 03, 2018, 09:16:59 PM
Wow Papaw!!!!  Thanks a ton for your support and for providing a great venue to talk about old tools!  And, thanks for the unexpected honor!

Jim C. (who is truly appreciative) 
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: Yadda on December 03, 2018, 10:06:28 PM
Wow!!!!!  I just noticed that I have been bestowed a title!  When did that happen?  Thank you for the honor!  I don’t feel worthy of that.

Jim C.
I did that a week or two ago, and you deserve it !

Kudos Jim!   I agree, well deserved!
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: amecks on December 04, 2018, 05:05:34 AM
Congrats, Jim!  I am trying to get some photos of my T Williams British tools.  It gets dark early and the lighting in the garage is not the best so the first set of pics are no good.
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: Jim C. on December 04, 2018, 08:50:02 AM
Wow!!!!!  I just noticed that I have been bestowed a title!  When did that happen?  Thank you for the honor!  I don’t feel worthy of that.

Jim C.
I did that a week or two ago, and you deserve it !

Kudos Jim!   I agree, well deserved!

Thanks Yadda.  Much appreciated!
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: Jim C. on December 04, 2018, 08:52:15 AM
Congrats, Jim!  I am trying to get some photos of my T Williams British tools.  It gets dark early and the lighting in the garage is not the best so the first set of pics are no good.

Hey Al,

Thanks!  Also, whenever you get some good photos of your British tool collection, we’d love to see them!

Jim C.
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: amecks on December 04, 2018, 06:22:15 PM
Here are pictures of my T Williams wrenches.  Everybody knows what Snap-On wrenches look like so I won't post them.  I purchased the Snap-On wrenches and sockets about 1985 or so (before I was married!).  They are in BS - British Standard - markings.  I am pretty sure it is a complete set of what was available at that time.  There are (7) wrenches,  3/16BS thru 7/16BS. There are (12) 3/8 dr sockets in a Snap On tray,  and there are (5) 1/4 dr sockets and these have the newer angular Snap On script.  The wrench Don (d42jeep) sent me is an earlier Snap-On and marked in Whitworth size.  It's a 7/16W which would be equivalent to 3/8BS.

If you're not familiar with British wrench (or spanner) sizes The British Standard and Whitworth sizes relate to the screw diameter, not the measure "across the flats" on the hex head.  But the wrench sizes used are the same, therefore a wrench end is often marked 9/16W-5/8BS indicating usefulness on both 9/16W bolts and 5/8BS bolts.  BA is another thread pattern usually for smaller screws used in electronic parts.

These are my T Williams Superslim wrenches.  I like them alot.  They aren't chrome plated but they are made of good steel, they're light, the wrench heads are compact not bulky, the length is adequate and they just feel right in use. The sizes range from 1/8W3/16BS to 9/16W5/8BS with the largest being just under 3/4" across.  The intermediate sixes repeat on the next wrench so a set will have two of most sizes which can be handy.  There may be larger or smaller Superslims but these are all I have found.  I have a few duplicates.
(https://i.postimg.cc/q7nHD7bs/IMG-7945.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/nzGbZPtM/IMG-7946.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/fW5nrpKr/IMG-7947.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

These are a set of "ring spanners" or box ends as we call them.  This set was purchased this year, then I sold off a couple odd ring spanners to help pay for these.  These are beautifully chromed with some wear.  They range from1/8W to 1/2W.  These are marked only in Whitworth sizes but as I said they will fit BS screws also.
Thanks for looking.
Al
(https://i.postimg.cc/mkmv11ks/IMG-7948.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/MKT2253K/IMG-7949.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/4y4C3QJP/IMG-7950.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: Jim C. on December 04, 2018, 06:58:46 PM
Nice sets Al and thanks for the write up too.  It was certainly informative.  As I’m reading your words, I’m understanding that your DOE set is one that you’re putting together one wrench at a time.  I think that’s great! Do you have a list of the wrenches that comprise the set?  When were the Superslim wrenches manufactured?  They’re nice looking wrenches......  I’m interested.

Jim C.
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: d42jeep on December 05, 2018, 03:07:36 AM
I hope you don’t mind, but when I was taking pictures of my Craftsman Whitworth sockets I took some of my other Whitworth tools. The Proto sockets and the combo set were from a local garage sale.
-Don
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: amecks on December 05, 2018, 04:19:44 AM
Jim,  I can't provide much info about these wrenches.  My list of T Williams Superslims only comes from searching eBay and waiting for the missing wrenches to show up at an affordable price.  I can only guess that these were sometimes supplied with auto kits and that they date from the 50's-60's.

From Grace's Guide - Williams, T. (Drop Forgings & Tools), Ltd. Stand A,618 Tilton Road Works, Tilton Road, Birmingham, 9. Teleph.: Victoria 3451/2/3. Tel. Add.: Victoria 3451/2/3.-Engineers' and Motorists' Tools. Superslim Ring, Open Jaw, Adjustable Wrenches, Pliers, Pincers, Screwdrivers, Tool Kits. Precision Ferrous Drop Forgings either Rough or Finished, Machined for the Motor and Engineering Industries.

I'll try asking on Britbike.com forum and see if any of the guys can tell me more.
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: Jim C. on December 05, 2018, 07:19:42 AM
I hope you don’t mind, but when I was taking pictures of my Craftsman Whitworth sockets I took some of my other Whitworth tools. The Proto sockets and the combo set were from a local garage sale.
-Don

No problem Don!  I’m glad you chipped in.  Everyone likes photos, so thanks.  If the thread morphs into a Whitworth tool thread that represents different brands and manufacturers, then so be it.  Good stuff!

Jim C.
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: Jim C. on December 05, 2018, 07:39:07 AM
Jim,  I can't provide much info about these wrenches.  My list of T Williams Superslims only comes from searching eBay and waiting for the missing wrenches to show up at an affordable price.  I can only guess that these were sometimes supplied with auto kits and that they date from the 50's-60's.

From Grace's Guide - Williams, T. (Drop Forgings & Tools), Ltd. Stand A,618 Tilton Road Works, Tilton Road, Birmingham, 9. Teleph.: Victoria 3451/2/3. Tel. Add.: Victoria 3451/2/3.-Engineers' and Motorists' Tools. Superslim Ring, Open Jaw, Adjustable Wrenches, Pliers, Pincers, Screwdrivers, Tool Kits. Precision Ferrous Drop Forgings either Rough or Finished, Machined for the Motor and Engineering Industries.

I'll try asking on Britbike.com forum and see if any of the guys can tell me more.

Thanks Al.  After reading your post, I searched for the wrenches and kept ending up on eBay, which can be a great resource for finding information and photos.  Most of the listings for the Superslim wrenches seem to be from England.  So I was wondering if that was how you were collecting them.  I’ve purchased a few wrenches from across the pond, and have found the shipping costs to be steep.  But I’m right there with you.  If I was collecting a set and the source of the tools was overseas, I’d be spending the money to have them shipped.  What choice do you have?  It’s pretty cool that you’re collecting vintage tools to work on vintage British motorcycles.  I like that!  Keep collecting and let us see what you find.

Jim C.
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: amecks on December 05, 2018, 03:50:11 PM
Honestly I have tried and cannot remember how I got the first Superslims.  I think I found a few at flea markets.  At some point I began collecting the missing wrenches from eBay.  Some probably from USA and maybe some from Britain.  Not all shipping from Britain is expensive although the affordable charges seem harder to find.  I suspect many Brits do not understand their mail system regarding international shipments.  I have purchased products from Britain for considerably less than the same from USA!  I buy Royal Enfield parts from Hitchcocks and the shipping is no more than buying from USA vendors (but Hitchcock's has many items that cannot be found on this side of the pond). 
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: Danks on December 08, 2018, 03:51:27 PM
Here are a few more orphans from, T Williams - Superslim - England.
Cheers
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: amecks on December 08, 2018, 05:15:59 PM
The top Whitworth wrench is marked only in W for Whitworth while most T Williams' are marked in W and BSF.  Also that wrench is marked British Made instead of Made In England.  The other wrench is larger than any other Superslim I've seen - the 1-1/8W wrench opening is 1.88" or more than 1-3/4 wide.  Is that correct, Danks?  That's a big wrench.
I've often been tempted to try and collect a set of AF or Metric Superslims - but have resisted - so far.
Thanks for posting, great photos.
Al
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: Danks on December 08, 2018, 07:38:08 PM
Hi Al, that is correct, see attached photographs of each end of wrench.
Cheers
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: Jim C. on December 08, 2018, 08:35:52 PM
......I've often been tempted to try and collect a set of AF or Metric Superslims - but have resisted - so far......
Al

Why resist?
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: Jim C. on June 21, 2019, 06:15:31 PM
........Very simple cars compared to today. My Riding lawn mower is more complicated to work on....

Okay, so that’s good to know.  I guess I’ll come clean.  In my original post, I ended by saying that I needed to find an old MG, so I could use my little collection of Whitworth tools.  Well, I do have my eye on a “survivor” 100% original, unrestored, unmolested, still running, 1955 MG.  The car belongs to my uncle.  He bought it in 1959 from his college roommate, who bought it new in 1955.  I’ve talked to him about selling me that car FOR DECADES!  Now in his early eighties, I think he’s getting close to parting with it.  My aunt keeps telling him to sell it.  He keeps telling me I’ll have the first shot at it.  We shall see! 

Jim C.

  I bought it!!!  :smiley:

Jim C.
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: p_toad on June 21, 2019, 06:31:14 PM
Nice.   Hope the undercarriage looks as good as the shiney side.   :smiley:
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: Chillylulu on June 21, 2019, 09:29:17 PM
Your patience paid off!

Congratulations!

Chilly

Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: d42jeep on June 21, 2019, 11:34:37 PM
I always wanted a TF ever since I drove a friend’s at 15 yrs old. Congratulations.
-Don
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: lptools on June 22, 2019, 06:08:02 AM
Nice ride!!! Congratulations!!!
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: Jim C. on June 22, 2019, 06:46:15 AM
Thanks all for the well wishes!  I’ve been thinking about that car for a LONG time!  My earliest memories of it are from about 52 years ago.  I’m excited to finally have it.  It needs some mechanical attention but I expected that.  I’ll keep you posted.

Jim C. 
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: Bill Houghton on June 22, 2019, 12:10:21 PM
Coming to this conversation late, with a couple of random comments:

I've never set out to find Whitworth wrenches, but have stumbled over a few now and again, and I've noticed that I've seen double-open-end wrenches (or, to be linguistically correct, spanners) in Whitworth far more often than either box end (ring spanner) or combination wrenches.  I have no idea why; perhaps it was all part of the British maintenance plan: best to round off the nuts right away to simplify future maintenance, something far more easily done with an open end wrench.

I am also entertained that the catalog page Jim posted way back up there in his initial post has a drawing of a VW bug right above the listings of Whitworth tools.  VWs bugs have their eccentricities, but Whitworth fasteners are not among them.
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: Jim C. on June 22, 2019, 06:38:11 PM
Hi Bill,

In an effort to clearly show the tools included in the Craftsman Whitworth set, I sort of zoomed in on it, resulting in a view of just a portion on the entire catalog page.  Back in 1960, Craftsman could advertise all of its Whitworth AND metric tools on just two thirds of a page.  Those were their very first offerings.  The Whitworth tools were gone from the catalog by 1962, and the metric selections only expanded.  Anyway, if you take a look at the full page from the 1960 catalog, notice the upper left hand corner.  I think that little car represents the British car/Whitworth market Sears was aiming for.

As for the wrenches, I have been on the lookout for Whitworth tools for a few years now, in anticipation of buying the MG.  I completely agree your observation.  I seem to come across DOE wrenches more often than DBE or combos.  I don't know why that is, but I do see a lot of DOE Whitworth wrenches.

Jim C.
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: Bill Houghton on June 23, 2019, 08:07:35 AM
It's possible that the frequency with which you and I have encountered DOE wrenches over DBE or combo wrenches is just part of British Tradition, although I find it hard to believe that a mechanic would allow that to get in the way of the superiority of box end/ring spanner wrenches for many applications.

It's also possible that they're just easier to forge than box-end patterns and that the market for Whitworth wrenches is limited enough that it won't support a full line of wrenches.
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: Jim C. on June 23, 2019, 10:14:28 AM
Bill,

I can always count on you for a perspective I hadn’t considered.  I did think about the manufacturing process between the two styles of wrenches, but “British tradition” never crossed my mind.  Could it even be possible that was a factor in the production of DOE versus DBE wrenches?

Jim C.
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: Papaw on June 23, 2019, 01:17:35 PM
At the risk of repeating myself, since I haven't contributed to this thread-

I got my first experience with Whitworth when I bought a Triumph Daytona 500 in 1970. The bike had problems and warranty fixed it the first time, but 3 months later when I had moved to near New Orleans, the dealer there didn't want to honor a warranty on a bike not bought from him!
I bought a service manual and took the top end down myself. I soon found the fasteners weren't exactly compatible with the wrenches I had, so I bought Whitworth.

Later I became a motorcycle mechanic and did a lot of work on Triumph and BSA bikes.

Even later, I owned an MGA and needed them again. Those wrenches are still in my tool box somewhere, along with tins of Whitworth fasteners.
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: Bill Houghton on July 08, 2019, 08:14:35 PM
Those wrenches are still in my tool box somewhere...
Just in case you buy another old British machine, right?  Maybe a Royal Enfield this time?  Or a Matchless?
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: d42jeep on July 09, 2019, 06:02:09 AM
Those wrenches are still in my tool box somewhere...
Just in case you buy another old British machine, right?  Maybe a Royal Enfield this time?  Or a Matchless?
Did somebody mention Matchless? Here are some bikes in my old buddy’s shop.
-Don Houghton
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: Bill Houghton on July 09, 2019, 08:17:59 AM
Dang, your old buddy has some nice machines!  I assume this picture was taken after someone mopped up the drool puddles from any recent visitors to the shop.
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: Papaw on July 09, 2019, 08:28:08 AM
I had a Matchless for a short time. Someone had made a chopper out of it and did very poor job. I think I sold it for parts.
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: amecks on July 09, 2019, 03:43:53 PM
Did someone say Royal Enfield?  My 1967 Royal Enfield Interceptor - which requires all British Standard/Whitworth wrenches.
When I bought it in 2010...
(https://i.postimg.cc/3J1SyLLX/ENFIELDdayone-005w.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
This photo is a year or two later...Enfield's motto is "Made Like a Gun" with the logo of a cannon.  I think every Enfield owner has a photo of their bike with a cannon.
(https://i.postimg.cc/YSWzx8xy/Made-Like-a-Gun-003-01.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/7/4/7/1/9/4/webimg/496948166_o.jpg)
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: Papaw on July 09, 2019, 03:48:52 PM
Great restoration, Al !
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: lptools on July 09, 2019, 04:20:37 PM
Hello, Al . Very nice bike, and very nice work!!! Regards, Lou
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: amecks on July 09, 2019, 07:16:25 PM
Thanks guys, but its not really restored.  Its more refurbished.  I tried to keep it as original as possible.  Very little polishing and the rusty tank left as is.  I even left the last inspection sticker in place from 1974.
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: Bill Houghton on July 10, 2019, 08:26:48 AM
Had I ever wanted to purchase a British bike, an Enfield would have been at the top of the list - specifically an Interceptor.  That motor, with the cooling fins running up the side all the way to the top, and the chrome gas tank...makes a Triumph look puny.
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: amecks on July 10, 2019, 06:02:30 PM
The remarkable thing about the Interceptor, today, is the availability of parts, thanks mainly to Hitchcocks in England.  They also post illustrated parts lists.  Many parts are related to the Bullet model which is yet manufactured in India.  My bike sports a twin leading shoe brake plate from a Bullet.  Not an impressive stopper but way better than the original single leading shoe brake.

We should get back on topic - a couple years ago I was at my clubs swap meet and I saw a set of four box wrenches in a guys van.  I didn't think much of them (I rarely use them).  A few minutes later my friend Hunter walks up and says look what I got for (some ridiculously low price), a set of Craftsman Whitworth box wrenches , and in excellent condition.
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: Jim C. on July 13, 2019, 07:56:21 AM
........

We should get back on topic .....

GREAT photos!  Anything in this thread that’s related to Whitworth sized tools is on topic.  What good is it to talk about the tools if we can’t also talk about the cool old motorcycles and cars they service?  Here's my mine!  Notice the vintage correct tools in the foreground of the second photo.  I try to use them whenever I can.     

Jim C.
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: Bill Houghton on July 13, 2019, 01:07:52 PM
Nice TF, Jim!  I've been impressed over the years by MG's sublety in updating the T series with the TF model.  While the MGA is pretty, it doesn't hold a candle to the T series.
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: Jim C. on July 14, 2019, 12:21:41 PM
Thanks Bill.  I agree, the T series cars are sharp.  I remember growing up and occasionally seeing that car at family parties, etc., from the time I was about six or seven, give or take.  Back then, it reminded me of an “old fashioned” car.  My attitude towards it changed as I got older and more interested in cars.  As I learn more about the car, I’m quickly becoming a fan to say the least.

Jim C.
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: lptools on July 14, 2019, 12:37:42 PM
Hello, Jim. Nice ride!!!. Is that a Craftsman tool set? Regards, Lou
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: Jim C. on July 15, 2019, 02:01:42 PM
Thanks Lou!  Yes, those are Craftsman tools.
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: t115145 on August 25, 2019, 12:30:59 PM
I bought a set of Witworth combination wrenches made in Spain.  Never had to use them yet, but I'm ready whenever a stray Spitfire might show up at the hangar.
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: amecks on August 26, 2019, 03:51:11 AM
Quote
a stray Spitfire might show up at the hangar.

That could happen!  A Spitfire is being flown around the world..
https://www.silverspitfire.com/ (https://www.silverspitfire.com/)
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: Bill Houghton on August 26, 2019, 10:17:09 AM
Quote
a stray Spitfire might show up at the hangar.

That could happen!  A Spitfire is being flown around the world..
https://www.silverspitfire.com/ (https://www.silverspitfire.com/)
When I read "Spitfire" and "Whitworth" in the same thread, I tend to think of this particular sort of Spitfire
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/46/1974_Triumph_Spitfire4.jpg/280px-1974_Triumph_Spitfire4.jpg)
although I don't know how much Triumph was still using Whitworth by the time they made this example of hazard at any speed.  And I doubt it would fly far anyway (and the landing wouldn't be pleasant).

But the other Spitfire, it would be neat for one of those to show up, yes.
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: Papaw on August 26, 2019, 10:38:57 AM
Or you may want to restore an old Packard. Or a vintage Triumph or BSA motorcycle.
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: Bill Houghton on August 26, 2019, 12:44:09 PM
Packards used Whitworth fasteners?
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: Papaw on August 26, 2019, 01:14:43 PM
I have always heard that they  did. At least in their V-12 engines.
It would be worthwhile to read this-
https://jrcengineering.com/technical-support/whitworth-and-other-british-threads/ (https://jrcengineering.com/technical-support/whitworth-and-other-british-threads/)

Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: Bill Houghton on August 26, 2019, 02:20:34 PM
Thanks, Papaw - interesting article, which successfully distracted me from doing actual work for a few minutes.

I was intrigued to learn that the WWII Rolls-Royce Merlin aircraft engines used S.U. carbs - I wonder if these were similar to the S.U. carbs found on British cars for so many years?  Given the deserved reputation of the S.U. carb for fussiness, those pilots must have been really grateful for good mechanics!
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: d42jeep on August 26, 2019, 04:06:48 PM
I believe that every type of wrench was included including Whitworth, SAE and maybe metric.
-Don
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: amecks on August 27, 2019, 03:49:39 AM
Every time I see a picture of a tool kit I wonder how many of these tools I may have passed by not knowing what they once belonged to.  I have a few sites saved that have tool kit descriptions but I wish more information was available.
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: Jim C. on August 27, 2019, 05:00:27 AM
I hear you Al.  I’ve had similar thoughts about some tools I’ve seen here and there.  I can’t buy everything and I don’t necessarily have the time to research the tools.  I try to focus on a few things and “stay in my lane.”  Still, the “lane” is getting wider all the time!   :grin:

Jim C.
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: d42jeep on August 27, 2019, 08:06:09 AM
Here are some NOS Barcalo wrenches made for the Merlin toolset. They must have made some extras.
-Don
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: papadan on August 27, 2019, 06:23:37 PM
Ran across a bargain today! I would like to let all you guys in on it, I'll give free shipping to all members! ;-)
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: d42jeep on August 27, 2019, 07:29:17 PM
Thanks but I already have the socket.
-Don
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: papadan on August 27, 2019, 08:18:03 PM
Don, those things have been out almost 30 years and you are the first person I have ever known to have one. LMAO
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: d42jeep on August 27, 2019, 10:34:51 PM
I saw it at the flea and was amused by it, so I picked it up.  I never considered actually using it.
-Don
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: Jim C. on December 22, 2019, 03:32:21 PM
........Very simple cars compared to today. My Riding lawn mower is more complicated to work on....

Okay, so that’s good to know.  I guess I’ll come clean.  In my original post, I ended by saying that I needed to find an old MG, so I could use my little collection of Whitworth tools.  Well, I do have my eye on a “survivor” 100% original, unrestored, unmolested, still running, 1955 MG.  The car belongs to my uncle.  He bought it in 1959 from his college roommate, who bought it new in 1955.  I’ve talked to him about selling me that car FOR DECADES!  Now in his early eighties, I think he’s getting close to parting with it.  My aunt keeps telling him to sell it.  He keeps telling me I’ll have the first shot at it.  We shall see! 

Jim C.

  I bought it!!!  :smiley:

Jim C.

Work on the MG is well underway!  (Sorry for the sideways pictures.  I don’t know how to fix that.)  The engine and transmission are out for overhauls.  The Whitworth tools have come in handy.  Every fastener is a guess between SAE, metric or Whitworth.  So far I’d say about 40% are definitely Whitworth.  While SAE and metric tools sort of fit and are close, in those instances the Whitworth tools fit perfectly.  The Craftsman tools I have are 1/2” drive, but more than once 3/8” drive tools would be more appropriate, so I made an investment in a small set of 3/8” drive Whitworth sockets made by Koken.  I’ve heard and read good things about them.  I’ll keep you posted.

Jim C.
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: Papaw on December 22, 2019, 06:36:31 PM
Fixed the pictures.
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: Jim C. on December 22, 2019, 06:44:12 PM
Thanks Papaw! :grin:
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: Papaw on December 22, 2019, 07:06:20 PM
Use Irfanview. Free and easy to use. You can do plenty with it and no yearly fees like Photoshop.
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: lptools on December 22, 2019, 07:12:02 PM
Hello, Jim. Thanks for the photos on the restoration, please keep  us updated!! Regards, Lou
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: lptools on December 22, 2019, 07:15:39 PM
Hello, Papaw. Thanks for the info, but Irfanview will not run on a Mac (which I have). Regards, Lou
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: papadan on December 22, 2019, 07:46:23 PM
Looks like you're moving along Jim, too bad you picked an ugly car to work on! ;-)  The 53 TD that I restored was British racing green, not a nasty red like yours. ;-() 
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: Papaw on December 22, 2019, 09:47:54 PM
Hello, Papaw. Thanks for the info, but Irfanview will not run on a Mac (which I have). Regards, Lou
Try Nomacs , a free image viewer for windows, linux, and mac systems, which is licensed under the GNU Public License v3. Nomacs is small, fast and able to handle   most post processing tasks that Irfanview does.
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: Jim C. on December 23, 2019, 07:02:15 AM
Looks like you're moving along Jim, too bad you picked an ugly car to work on! ;-)  The 53 TD that I restored was British racing green, not a nasty red like yours. ;-()

Hey Dan,

When it comes to old cars, color is a little further down the list of things I look for.  Personally, I go for originality first and foremost.  Original paint (regardless of color), vintage correct parts, completeness, and overall condition are what I’m looking for.  As far as color goes, well, if everything else is right, you just go with it, like it or not.  Anyway, I’ll bet that green was sharp!  Post a few pictures of your 1953 TD. 

Jim C.
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: Downwindtracker2 on December 25, 2019, 11:39:32 AM
Keep us posted, please. Old MGs, up to the A are some of the most fun cars to drive ever made.
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: Jim C. on December 28, 2019, 01:24:49 PM
........Very simple cars compared to today. My Riding lawn mower is more complicated to work on....

Okay, so that’s good to know.  I guess I’ll come clean.  In my original post, I ended by saying that I needed to find an old MG, so I could use my little collection of Whitworth tools.  Well, I do have my eye on a “survivor” 100% original, unrestored, unmolested, still running, 1955 MG.  The car belongs to my uncle.  He bought it in 1959 from his college roommate, who bought it new in 1955.  I’ve talked to him about selling me that car FOR DECADES!  Now in his early eighties, I think he’s getting close to parting with it.  My aunt keeps telling him to sell it.  He keeps telling me I’ll have the first shot at it.  We shall see! 

Jim C.

  I bought it!!!  :smiley:

Jim C.

Work on the MG is well underway!  (Sorry for the sideways pictures.  I don’t know how to fix that.)  The engine and transmission are out for overhauls.  The Whitworth tools have come in handy.  Every fastener is a guess between SAE, metric or Whitworth.  So far I’d say about 40% are definitely Whitworth.  While SAE and metric tools sort of fit and are close, in those instances the Whitworth tools fit perfectly.  The Craftsman tools I have are 1/2” drive, but more than once 3/8” drive tools would be more appropriate, so I made an investment in a small set of 3/8” drive Whitworth sockets made by Koken.  I’ve heard and read good things about them.  I’ll keep you posted.

Jim C.

As I previously mentioned, I’ve been working on the MG mostly using the Craftsman 1/2” drive Whitworth socket set featured way back in this thread’s initial post.  While it’s been adequate for the most part, there have been several instances where smaller tools would have made things easier.  Since the car is 99% factory original, and I want to keep it that way, I’m really trying to be careful not to round the corners of factory installed hardware by using smaller SAE and metric tools that sort of fit when the 1/2” drive Craftsman sockets are too cumbersome.  Many of the bolt heads have distinctive markings that indicate they were clearly manufactured by UK based companies.  Obviously I want to keep those looking good.  Consequently, using the right Whitworth sized socket is imperative.  Anyway, a good basic set of USA made Whitworth sockets is tough to find.  After doing a little research on the Internet, I came across a 3/8” drive Japanese set made by Koken.  They’re probably one third the cost of a similar set of Snap On sockets, but I gotta say, their quality is right up there with Snap On.  I’m impressed with them.  I used them yesterday and came away a fan of Koken sockets.  Normally I look for new or used USA made tools.  That being said, Koken sockets appear to be a pretty good alternative when USA made tools are unavailable or too costly.

Jim C.
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: Bill Houghton on January 04, 2020, 11:11:08 AM
When I was young, "Made in Japan" carried the same overtones as "Made in China" does now.  It was inaccurate, or at least incomplete, even then; Nikon's S2 camera, for instance, was no slouch.  But a lot of junk got produced in Japan (although, to be fair, a lot of junk back then got produced in the U.S. too, but somehow that didn't get attention).

But Japanese industry long ago made the decision to focus on quality products, so I'm not surprised those sockets are quality.
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: Downwindtracker2 on January 06, 2020, 11:00:43 AM
Before "Made In Japan", there was " Made in West Germany ". I have a set of metric 1/2" Stahwille sockets from the early '90s . They are so nicely finished you could put a string though them and wear them as a necklace. A necklace of pearls wouldn't be half as pretty, a bit lighter though. Now being on a pension, I'm pretty careful about my new tool purchases. My latest stubby set is "Made in India" .
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: Jim C. on January 29, 2020, 09:24:20 PM
Ever since I started my MG project, I’ve been a lot more vigilant when looking for Whitworth sized tools.  I recently picked up this set of Superslim wrenches.  The project itself is going well.  I’m making good progress.

Jim C.
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: amecks on January 30, 2020, 04:59:04 AM
I have a set of Williams Superslims open ends and I feel they're as good as any wrench.  I know there are other really great Whitworth/British Standard wrenches but I like the fit and feel of the Superslims. 
Here's my set of Superslim "ring spanners" or as we call them, box end wrenches.
(https://i.postimg.cc/Hs35Ktfx/IMG-7948.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: lptools on January 30, 2020, 02:01:43 PM
Hello, Al. Nice set of wrenches, I have never seen that Williams Superslim logo. Jim, are yours Williams wrenches, too? Regards, lou
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: amecks on January 30, 2020, 03:27:44 PM
If I can answer for Jim, my set is the same as his - with the T_W logo (T. Williams Co.).  I have never seen the Whitworth/BS wrenches plated but I have seen cad plated AF and Metric Superslims and a few chrome wrenches (extremely rare - makes me wonder if someone had them plated).

I used these wrenches only occasionally until 2010 when I bought the Royal Enfield Interceptor 750 twin motorcycle.  Almost every bolt on the machine is British Standard Cycle Thread - the same wrench sizes as the "BSF" (British Standard Fine) on the Superslims.  The bolts/threads that are not BSC are BA or actual Whitworth pattern.
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: lptools on January 30, 2020, 03:58:50 PM
Hello, Al. Thanks!!!, Lou
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: Jim C. on January 30, 2020, 07:17:43 PM
Hey Lou,

My wrenches are Superslims.  I actually got interested in them after I saw amecks’ post earlier in this thread.  They’re nice old wrenches.
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: Jim C. on January 30, 2020, 07:58:03 PM
As for the MG, well, I’m making good progress.  Every nut and bolt I’ve encountered is Whitworth sized.  So, my small collection of Whitworth tools have been a necessity to say the least.  Interestingly, all the factory original fasteners associated with the engine and gearbox have Whitworth heads and metric threads!  I have no idea why that is.  Non engine/gearbox fasteners have Whitworth heads and threads.  I’ve also come across several BA (British Association) fasteners.  Consequently I bought a set of sockets that range between BA0 and BA8.  I’d like to find a set of BA wrenches if possible.  Anyway, here’s a couple photos.

Jim C.
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: Bill Houghton on January 31, 2020, 11:01:04 AM
Thanks for the photos - looking forward to seeing it complete.
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: Jim C. on January 31, 2020, 01:58:50 PM
Hey Bill,

Here’s a few more photos.  I painted the engine this morning and reassembled the grill and radiator.  Getting the grill back together was a little tricky.   It came apart easier than it went back together.  I’ll post a few pictures.  I’m really enjoying the project.

Jim C.
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: Jim C. on January 31, 2020, 02:19:03 PM
Here’s a few “before” pictures of the grill...... lots of rust and crud. 
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: Jim C. on January 31, 2020, 02:22:48 PM
Here’s a few “after” photos......
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: Jim C. on February 06, 2020, 05:13:01 PM
The finish line is near!
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: papadan on February 06, 2020, 07:10:56 PM
Looking really good Jim!
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: amecks on February 07, 2020, 06:40:48 PM
Kind of exciting!  I'm jealous how fast this is going together.  My motorcycle project is moving along, although slowly.
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: Jim C. on February 07, 2020, 09:35:50 PM
Looking really good Jim!

Thanks!  Almost done. 
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: Jim C. on February 07, 2020, 09:51:59 PM
Kind of exciting!  I'm jealous how fast this is going together.  My motorcycle project is moving along, although slowly.

Hi amecks,

I have the luxury of getting to work on the car 30 to 40 hours per week in a high end shop that has EVERYTHING necessary to keep the project moving as quickly and efficiently as possible.  I also get a lot of sound advice/help from the techs who work there restoring/fixing predominantly old Corvettes and other 1950s and 1960s muscle cars.  I’m very lucky to have this kind of access, otherwise, things would be going MUCH, MUCH slower.  Just keep plugging away! 

Jim C.
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: Jim C. on February 07, 2020, 09:56:20 PM
I spent a lot of time today cleaning the interior. It’s much easier to do without the seats in the car.

Jim C.
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: d42jeep on February 08, 2020, 03:39:39 AM
It’s coming along well and looking great!
-Don
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: Jim C. on February 08, 2020, 05:42:06 AM
Thanks Don!  I need to fine tune the SU carburetors, get the last few body panels and bumper installed, buff the paint and I think I’m about done.  I left the right side fender, etc. off the car so I can get at those carbs.  Once that fender and side panel are bolted on, access to the carbs becomes a lot more difficult.  There’s not too much elbow room under the hood once those fenders and side panels are in place.

Jim C.
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: Bill Houghton on February 08, 2020, 11:06:47 AM
Very nice.  I notice it's got the James Bond Optional Wall-Crawler suspension that allows it to drive along vertical walls...unless your top picture is sideways...

That's going to be a sweet ride.  I note the battery is labeled "Perfect Start."  Is that an attempt to exorcise the Prince of Darkness, aka Lucas electrics?

I hope your adjustment on the SU carbs goes well; there seems to be a lot of dark art there, too.  My son's first Volvo had SU carbs, and I remain amazed that I was able to rebuild them and have the car running when I was done.  They're interesting devices because there appears to be only slightly more there than you would find on a motorcycle carburetor, yet they are in fact far more sophisticated than your basic Solex (or simple versions of the Amal) carb; and thus trickier.
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: Jim C. on February 08, 2020, 10:09:23 PM
Hi Bill,

I'm not sure why that photo posted sideways.  What’s interesting is that when you click on the picture, it enlarges and is correctly oriented.  Who knows why?  As for the battery, well, that’s what was mounted in the box when I bought the car from my uncle.  I can’t say that I particularly care for the way it looks, but it’ll be okay for now.  It gets the job done.  I’d rather have something a little more vintage correct looking.  (There’s a surprise, right?) I certainly don’t want to jinx things particularly as they relate to Lucas electrical components.  Everything seems to work at the moment.  I’m keeping my fingers crossed.  I’m really more concerned about oil leaks! You might recall that I started this project because the engine was leaking oil badly.  So far, everything looks good.  I am very hopeful that nothing changes!  ......... The carburetors!  I can’t claim any expertise regarding SU carburetors but I’m learning.  I think I’ve watched every online video there is regarding SU carbs.  Some of the videos are better than others, but they’ve all helped to demystify these carbs.  I’m actually excited to dig in and get more familiar with them.  I’ll keep you posted.

Jim C.
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: amecks on February 09, 2020, 06:42:00 AM
Usually you can get those battery stickers off easily.  A heat gun will make it even easier.  That would help it look a little more vintage.  Are the alloy engine parts standard? (Valve cover, tappet cover, etc.?).
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: Jim C. on February 09, 2020, 09:38:26 AM
Hey Al,

Thanks for the tip!  I might give that a try.  As for the valve and tappet covers, the answer is “No.”  The originals were a little less “bright.”  I included a photo depicting what the original parts and factory finishes looked like.  When the engine rebuild was underway, I considered tracking down original parts and replacing those aftermarket covers.  When I bought the car, I did ask my uncle if he had the originals.  His response was, “I never got them from Bob.”  Bob was the first owner of the car.  Bob bought the car new in 1955 and sold it to my uncle in 1959.  My uncle owned the car until 2019.  That’s 60 years!!!  So what I’m saying is that those aftermarket covers were probably installed by Bob, and my uncle left them on the motor for another six decades.  When I thought about it in those terms, the decision whether to replace them with original parts, or not, was pretty easy to make.  The aftermarket covers are part of the car, more so than any originals would be at this point in the car’s life.  So that’s that.

When I bought the car, both covers were grungy.  I spent some time and elbow grease cleaning them up.  Once clean, they were inspected and determined to be sound and reusable.  Within the recessed section of MG emblem on the valve cover there appeared to be remnants of black paint.  I cleaned the recess of all paint, etc, and carefully applied some tape to the raised sections of the emblem.  With a couple quick bursts of black paint, the emblem looks like new.  Twenty minutes of taping, ten seconds of painting!! :smiley:

Jim C.
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: amecks on February 09, 2020, 10:56:28 AM
Very cool story!  I agree with keeping those covers.  Both on the fact that it was that way when your uncle bought it and the fact they are true "period accessories" dating from the era when the car was "new".  I have several alloy period accessories on my '69 Triumph cycle - oil cooler/filter, finned rocker feed, tappet covers and points cover and slightly modified alloy exhaust clamps.
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: Jim C. on February 09, 2020, 05:13:50 PM
Hey Al,

Pictures are always welcome!

Jim C.
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: papadan on February 09, 2020, 06:13:29 PM
Uh....Umm....Jim old buddy, hate to put you on the spot, but why didn't you use the red on the cover emblem?  ;-()
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: Jim C. on February 09, 2020, 06:51:38 PM

................Within the recessed section of MG emblem on the valve cover there appeared to be remnants of black paint.........

Hi Dan,

Like I was saying, there were clearly remnants of black paint in the emblem’s recess.  While the valve cover itself is not an original MG factory part, it has been a part of the car for more than 60 years.  When I started the project, the main objective was to bring the car back to absolute mechanical perfection.  I wanted everything to work as designed.  Everything else was purposely left untouched in an effort to save the car’s originality. Anything that came off the car was evaluated, and either reused or replaced.  Very, very few parts were replaced.  Parts going back on the car were cleaned, rebuilt if necessary, and refinished/repainted to match their original look.  I’ll admit that there was a split decision around the shop whether to paint the valve cover emblem recess “engine red” or “original black.”  Ultimately, I decided to remain faithful to originality.......which was black.

Jim C.
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: Jim C. on February 09, 2020, 07:10:48 PM
Dan,

Just to follow up on that whole originality thing, well, the factory installed oil dipstick has the same MG recessed emblem on it. As far as I know, the recess was never painted.  After I painted the valve cover emblem black, the thought was to paint the dip stick emblem black to match.  Well, like I said, the dip stick wasn’t painted and it still isn’t.    :cheesy:

Jim C.
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: amecks on February 09, 2020, 07:57:04 PM
Okay.  I have pictures on postimage already, so...
The '69 Triumph Bonneville engine showing the period accessories, HC Coolfilter (behind/under carbs), Webco finned rocker box oil manifold and tappet covers, modified exhaust clamps.  I was mistaken in that I had replaced the finned points cover with original chrome cover (just visible lower right).  But that finned cover will be used on Project 39-1/2.
(https://i.postimg.cc/nzczbHT4/New-Exhaust-Clamps-002w.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
The exhaust clamps  as made are gaudy.  I call them "clown collars" because they look like the puffy collars on european costume clowns.  I reshaped these by bolting them to a fixture and running them through the table saw fitted with a non ferrous cutting disc.  Had to make a pass, then turn the clamp one fin, make another pass, etc.
(https://i.postimg.cc/zBv9dLdx/New-Exhaust-Clamps-005-01.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: Jim C. on February 10, 2020, 05:43:35 AM
Wow Al!!  I really like all the “bling!”  And you said those parts are all period correct aftermarket add ons?  Pretty cool.  Very nice job on the “clown collar” clamp.  If you hadn’t said you altered it, I would have never known.  I can see why your restoration is going slow.  From the looks of things, you take your time and you do things right.  I like that.  Keep posting as your project progresses.

Jim C.
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: Bill Houghton on February 10, 2020, 12:16:02 PM
Very nice.  I hope you'll be using period correct safety wire on the fasteners  :smiley:

I had a friend with a BSA, and borrowed it a couple of times - boy, was that thing a paint shaker!

What was that bumper sticker from the 1950s?  "The bits falling off this car/motorcycle are Genuine British Parts!"

But, back to my first, short sentence: that's a beautiful job.  British bikes of that period are lovely.
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: papadan on February 10, 2020, 12:43:59 PM
Nice bike Al. The only bike I ever had was a 66 Honda Dream 304. I rebuilt it from the ground up and then sold it without ever riding it. Like my 53 TD, the Dream was before digital cameras, I used a polaroid to document the builds as with my 57 Nomad and the pictures are as much history as the builds. :-(
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: lptools on February 10, 2020, 03:50:14 PM
Hello, Jim. Great work on the restoration, your commentary and photos are always worth waiting for!!! Regards, lou
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: lptools on February 10, 2020, 03:51:26 PM
Hello, Al. Nice ride, I hope to see the bike in person someday!!!Regards, Lou
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: amecks on February 10, 2020, 07:14:11 PM
Well I've owned 3 British bikes and working on a fourth half-breed British/Italian.  There have been things that loosened but never had a part fall off! 

I'd really like to post the story of Project 39-1/2 but I feel I would be hijacking this thread.  Maybe I'll post in General Discussion? 
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: Jim C. on February 10, 2020, 07:33:54 PM
Well I've owned 3 British bikes and working on a fourth half-breed British/Italian.  There have been things that loosened but never had a part fall off! 

I'd really like to post the story of Project 39-1/2 but I feel I would be hijacking this thread.  Maybe I'll post in General Discussion?

Go ahead Al.  Post it here.  This is the Whitworth tool thread and that includes the vehicles those tools service/build/restore.

Jim C.
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: Jim C. on February 10, 2020, 07:35:00 PM
Hello, Jim. Great work on the restoration, your commentary and photos are always worth waiting for!!! Regards, lou

Many thanks Lou.

Jim C.
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: Bill Houghton on February 11, 2020, 09:25:49 AM
Well I've owned 3 British bikes and working on a fourth half-breed British/Italian.  There have been things that loosened but never had a part fall off! 
I hope you realize I wuz teasing.

When I rode, I rode BMWs.  The little 250 (R27) was a shaker, but the flat twins were incredibly smooth for the period, so vibration was not much of an issue; I think it was the contrast with my bike that got my attention with the BSA's vibration.
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: Jim C. on February 12, 2020, 08:55:14 AM
My MG “to do” list is getting near the end.  One of the last items is the convertible top.  It’s 100% original with water stains and well worn piping on the edges.......but still worth saving.  One of the corners is coming apart at seams.  That needs to be repaired before it gets worse.  A new top might be in order, but I’m going to try saving this one!  I think it’s worth the effort.

Jim C.
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: amecks on February 12, 2020, 07:40:06 PM
Quote
I hope you realize I wuz teasing.
Certainly, Bill.  If you own a British bike you get lots of good natured ribbing!
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: Bill Houghton on February 13, 2020, 09:40:08 AM
Quote
I hope you realize I wuz teasing.
Certainly, Bill.  If you own a British bike you get lots of good natured ribbing!
I can't imagine why - what with their bulletproof electrical systems and all.

Probably most folks have seen this, but in case you haven't: http://www.mez.co.uk/lucas.html (http://www.mez.co.uk/lucas.html)
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: Jim C. on March 28, 2020, 05:54:22 AM
I finished the MG project this past week! 

Jim C.
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: lptools on March 28, 2020, 07:58:11 AM
Hello, Jim. Great work. your patience has paid off!! Regards, Lou
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: Jim C. on March 28, 2020, 09:08:53 AM
Thanks Lou!  It was a fun winter project. Now I’m just waiting for some good weather. 

Jim C.
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: Bill Houghton on March 28, 2020, 01:09:35 PM
Thanks Lou!  It was a fun winter project. Now I’m just waiting for some good weather. 

Jim C.
Gee, why?  You'd got a roof.  I bet you've got side curtains.  Between the two, in rainy weather, you shouldn't get more than a gallon or two of water inside; and in cold weather, you should be able to keep the cabin temperature a good degree or two over ambient.

 :smiley: :smiley: :smiley:

But, yeah; what was fun when we were young can sometimes be less fun nowadays.
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: lptools on March 28, 2020, 01:15:57 PM
Umm, Bill. I bet he doesn't want to get it dirty!!!  :cheesy:
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: coolford on March 28, 2020, 02:07:30 PM
Hey Jim----its not a frame up although it looks like it, so just bite the bullet and drive it.  Well, not in the rain.  You did a fine job!
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: Jim C. on March 28, 2020, 04:00:26 PM
Thanks Lou!  It was a fun winter project. Now I’m just waiting for some good weather. 

Jim C.
Gee, why?  You'd got a roof.  I bet you've got side curtains.  Between the two, in rainy weather, you shouldn't get more than a gallon or two of water inside; and in cold weather, you should be able to keep the cabin temperature a good degree or two over ambient.

 :smiley: :smiley: :smiley:

But, yeah; what was fun when we were young can sometimes be less fun nowadays.

Hey Bill,

The MG was close to complete when I got it, to include the side screens, and most of the factory supplied tools.  I’m missing a couple and can say that they’re tough to come by and expensive!  As for driving the car in the rain, well, at this point it would only happen by accident.

Jim C.
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: gibsontool on March 28, 2020, 04:35:33 PM
That little guy look real nice, you've done a fine job.
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: Jim C. on March 28, 2020, 04:53:26 PM
Hey Jim----its not a frame up although it looks like it, so just bite the bullet and drive it.  Well, not in the rain.  You did a fine job!

Hi coolford,

Thanks for the kudos. A body off frame restoration was never really in the plan.  My goal was to preserve as much of the originality and authenticity as possible and stop the massive oil leaks.  Some parts had to be restored in an effort to save them.  By that I mean, stripped down to bare metal and refinished.  Most were simply cleaned and put back on the car.  The paint, chrome, interior (dashboard, carpet, seats, vinyl, etc.) are 100% factory original.  Patina and imperfections that did not hinder the car’s operation were left as is.

Jim C.
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: Jim C. on March 28, 2020, 05:04:35 PM
That little guy look real nice, you've done a fine job.

Thanks Gibson!

Jim C.
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: amecks on March 29, 2020, 05:29:03 AM
Jim, Any chance you would attend the Eurocar show in Cazenovia on Father's Day?

I had a friend in Miami Florida years ago who had a few British cars.  He got hold of an Austin Healey and would drive it with only the tonneau cover - rain or shine.  If you keep moving the rain blows over the car and you will barely get wet at all.  Problem was, in Miami there's a stoplight very 10 city blocks.  You can't get from point A to point b without sitting at a few stoplights, at which point he would get soaked.  He ended up in the hospital with pneumonia!  He sold the Healey and bought a hardtop Camaro!
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: Jim C. on March 29, 2020, 08:41:50 AM
Jim, Any chance you would attend the Eurocar show in Cazenovia on Father's Day?

I had a friend in Miami Florida years ago who had a few British cars.  He got hold of an Austin Healey and would drive it with only the tonneau cover - rain or shine.  If you keep moving the rain blows over the car and you will barely get wet at all.  Problem was, in Miami there's a stoplight very 10 city blocks.  You can't get from point A to point b without sitting at a few stoplights, at which point he would get soaked.  He ended up in the hospital with pneumonia!  He sold the Healey and bought a hardtop Camaro!

Hey Al,

What year was your friend’s Camaro.  Back in my younger days, before marriage and kids and responsibilities, etc. etc., I had a 1967 and a 1978.....at the same time!  I’m a Camaro fan for sure!   

Okay, I’m not gonna lie, but I had to google Cazenovia to see where it was.  It sounds like a nice little town!  It’s unlikely that I’ll be there for the car show on Father’s Day.  With this virus thing going on, I’m wondering if the show might be canceled.  In terms of driving the MG, those instances will be reserved for sunny days and dry weather.  Now I will admit that a crazy thought did cross my mind to ship the car to England and drive it in a road rally there with my oldest son.  He’s an adventurer and a car enthusiast to some extent.  It would probably be the trip of a lifetime.  Maybe someday.......  For now, I’m waiting for some good weather close to home!

Jim C.
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: amecks on March 29, 2020, 04:19:04 PM
Jim, I think the Camaro was a 1984.  I drove it once, it was a stick shift.  Felt like driving a truck.  My mom had a '70 Firebird with a 400 V8, 2 barrel and automatic.  That car handled nice, smooth, fast.
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: Jim C. on March 29, 2020, 04:40:53 PM
Jim, I think the Camaro was a 1984.  I drove it once, it was a stick shift.  Felt like driving a truck.  My mom had a '70 Firebird with a 400 V8, 2 barrel and automatic.  That car handled nice, smooth, fast.

Wow!  That’s a pretty cool “mom car.”  I remember riding around in the backseat of my mom’s 1966 Ford Fairlane.  No where near as cool as a Firebird.

Jim C.
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: Jim C. on March 30, 2020, 05:58:08 PM
Somehow the Whitworth tool thread turned into the MG thread.  Well, it was fun, and I really do appreciate all the kind words.  Okay, so now I’m going to bring this back to tools.  As many of you know, back in the day, a lot of car manufacturers included a tool kit with their cars.  MG was one of many.  The kits mostly consisted of tools that would be potentially handy in a situation where the car broke down on the road.  For the most part, the tools were not necessarily of the highest quality, but they got the job done. 

When I bought the MG from my uncle last summer, he included several tools with the deal.  Once I sorted through everything, I managed to identify those tools that I thought were original MG factory supplied tools.  The first photo below is a detailed list taken from the owner’s manual specifically laying out the tools included with the car.  Well, if you take a look at the second picture, you’ll see the factory supplied tools that my uncle still had after sixty years.  While many of the tools were missing, I still had a good core group to build on.  The jack and handle assembly were complete, and the air pump was present.  Notice the medium sized DOE wrench is cut in half.  According to my uncle there are some tight spots under the hood and he couldn’t service the car with a full sized wrench.  Consequently, he cut the wrench years ago in order to turn a couple bolt heads behind the carburetor.  He went on to say that he didn’t want to cut a good wrench, so he cut the cheaply made stamped steel factory wrench.  I’m sure he wasn’t thinking how expensive and hard to find those original wrenches would be decades later. 

Anyway, from the moment I bought the car and figured out what I had and didn’t have, I started my quest to complete the set with ORIGINAL factory supplied tools.  When the tools left the factory, the smaller items were packed in a canvas roll that seemed to be coated in a black tar-like substance.  I’ve seen some original rolls and they were in rough shape.  I opted for a nice reproduction.  So much for my all original tool kit.  I can say that everything else I tracked down is the real deal.  After searching eBay regularly and going to swap meets, I was able to acquire several more tools that I was missing.  I found a few that were in England.  Shipping costs were steep.  I’m still missing a couple “tube spanners” which are represented by the two wooden dowels.  I was also able to find a replacement wrench for the one my uncle cut in half.  The fourth photo depicts the additional tools I’ve found so far.  The fifth picture illustrates all the factory tools (except the two tube spanners) that were supplied with the MG in the order they were listed in the owner’s manual (left to right). Only two more tools to find.  The quest continues! 

Jim C.

Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: humber2 on May 20, 2020, 01:48:46 AM
Have the maker(s) of the Craftsman Whitworth tools been identified?
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Whitworth Tool Set
Post by: Jim C. on May 20, 2020, 04:39:42 AM
Have the maker(s) of the Craftsman Whitworth tools been identified?

Hey humber2,

I’m pretty sure the manufacturer was Moore Drop Forge.

Jim C.