Tool Talk

Classic Auto and Motorcycle Tools => Classic Auto and Motorcycle Tools => Topic started by: coolford on January 08, 2019, 04:24:50 PM

Title: Old socket sets from before WW-2
Post by: coolford on January 08, 2019, 04:24:50 PM
The first one is a Walden No. 21 Lubrication set from the 1920's and the second one is a No. 25 more or less standard set from the same time period.
Title: Re: Old socket sets from before WW-2
Post by: p_toad on January 08, 2019, 09:47:28 PM
nice.   that no 21 set looks almost new in the box. 
Title: Re: Old socket sets from before WW-2
Post by: Jim C. on January 11, 2019, 05:41:10 AM
GREAT sets coolford!  I agree, that #21 set looks almost like NOS.  What drive size is it, 1/2”?  I really like the ball end on that speed wrench in the second photo. 

Jim C. (Who freely admits that he covets that #21 set!)
Title: Re: Old socket sets from before WW-2
Post by: coolford on January 11, 2019, 06:51:54 AM
These sets are both 1/2 inch drive.
Title: Re: Old socket sets from before WW-2
Post by: papadan on January 11, 2019, 08:12:20 PM
GREAT sets coolford!  I agree, that #21 set looks almost like NOS.  What drive size is it, 1/2”?  I really like the ball end on that speed wrench in the second photo. 

Jim C. (Who freely admits that he covets that #21 set!)
I'll just say +1 on covets!
Title: Re: Old socket sets from before WW-2
Post by: Northwoods on January 11, 2019, 08:33:20 PM
AA mentions the No. 25 set as not having a ratchet.  Can you give us a picture of the one included in your set?

Walden-Worcester No. 25 Socket Set
The Walden No. 25 socket set was an alternative collection with heavy-duty drive handles, but without a ratchet. The set consisted of a No. 1125 Ell-handle, a No. 1143 Tee-handle extension, a No. 1163 brace, and 12 2xx-series hex sockets with sizes 7/16 to 1-1/4.
The hex socket models and sizes were 214 (7/16), 216 (1/2), 218 (9/16), 220 (5/8), 222 (11/16), 224 (3/4), 228 (7/8), 230 (15/16), 232 (1), 234 (1-1/16), 236 (1-1/8), and 240 (1-1/4).
Our first reference for this set is the 1925 Dunham catalog, at which time the sets were supplied in metal boxes. However, our set is in a wooden box, suggesting that this model was available earlier.
The No. 25 set was supplied in a sturdy wooden box with wrap-over hinges. Our set is currently being prepared for display.
Fig. 67A. Walden No. 25 1/2-Drive Socket Set To Be Added.
Title: Re: Old socket sets from before WW-2
Post by: Jim C. on January 12, 2019, 06:30:33 AM
GREAT sets coolford!  I agree, that #21 set looks almost like NOS.  What drive size is it, 1/2”?  I really like the ball end on that speed wrench in the second photo. 

Jim C. (Who freely admits that he covets that #21 set!)
I'll just say +1 on covets!

Amen papadan,

I’ve been on a 4 point socket kick lately and that set fits the bill entirely.  It’s loaded with 4 point female AND male sockets.  It’s a great set that looks to be complete.  I’ve added it to my list of tools to be on the look out for.  Kudos to coolford for finding that one!

Jim C.
Title: Re: Old socket sets from before WW-2
Post by: papadan on January 12, 2019, 01:43:29 PM
I can't work on anything anymore. I could have used that lube set almost every day for 40 years and never knew it existed.
Title: Re: Old socket sets from before WW-2
Post by: skipskip on January 13, 2019, 02:35:05 PM
As I am trending toward older farm equipment to fix and sell, four and eight point sockets have become quite important.

and they either fit or not, no "sorta"

Skip

Title: Re: Old socket sets from before WW-2
Post by: coolford on January 15, 2019, 02:26:51 PM
Northwoods---forgot to take a picture, but the ratchet is  an OR916 push through.  It is probably correct for the same time period.  But, I happen to have three No. 25 sets and the same ratchet is in each one of them.  May well be that those that had the sets added the same ratchet.  Then again, Alloy artifacts may be wrong or its possible Walden may have changed the set content.  Will we ever know for sure?
Title: Re: Old socket sets from before WW-2
Post by: coolford on January 15, 2019, 02:36:28 PM
Here is the next one, a Walden No. 12.  This is from their pressed steel period and the largest pressed steel socket set they made.  To the best of my knowledge it is complete and better than the one Alloy Artifacts shows as it has a top as well as the listing of how you can make different combinations of the contents.
Title: Re: Old socket sets from before WW-2
Post by: gibsontool on January 15, 2019, 03:37:04 PM
I have a fair amount of Walden stuff but nothing as nice as that one, I'm drooling all over my computer.
Title: Re: Old socket sets from before WW-2
Post by: Jim C. on January 16, 2019, 06:26:04 AM
GREAT STUFF coolford! There’s nothing better than a complete set of tools in its original packaging/box.  When the tools are in mint condition, that’s even better.  Those examples take us back decades and provide a clear and unquestionable picture of what the manufacturers were producing back in the day.  Great set!

Jim C.
Title: Re: Old socket sets from before WW-2
Post by: coolford on January 16, 2019, 04:24:31 PM
I am at a complete loss on this Walden box that came without any contents.  Being a Walden No. 3 socket set box one would figure it probably contained pressed steel sockets and an allen type wrench driver.  Have not been able to find anything on the No. 3.  What it does contain is a set of oblong drive sockets and a homemade driver that I'm storing in the box until I can figure out what really belongs.  There again I have almost no information on the series of oblong sockets and drivers although I have others.  Has been mentioned the oblong shape would be cheaper to make than a square??  I hope someone might help me on both puzzles.
Title: Re: Old socket sets from before WW-2
Post by: lptools on January 16, 2019, 05:35:54 PM
Hello, Coolford. Great items from your collection. Thanks for sharing!!!!! Regards, Lou
Title: Re: Old socket sets from before WW-2
Post by: coolford on January 18, 2019, 04:20:03 PM
No comments on the Walden socket set No. 3----so nobody knows any more than me about it??

Well, here is another old set by Bay State Tools.  They call it the Bay State Autokit and its early with the pressed steel sockets, but it does have a ratchet that reverses.  I think its complete, have not seen another to compare it with.
Title: Re: Old socket sets from before WW-2
Post by: Northwoods on January 18, 2019, 08:13:14 PM

http://alloy-artifacts.org/bay-state-tool.html

You have a fine set, there. See figure 6.
Title: Re: Old socket sets from before WW-2
Post by: coolford on January 19, 2019, 06:37:04 AM
Northwoods----Thanks, last time I checked Alloy Artifacts (maybe a couple years ago) he didn't list the autokit.
Title: Re: Old socket sets from before WW-2
Post by: Jim C. on January 19, 2019, 06:57:50 AM
Another great set coolford!!  I’m really impressed with the condition, originality and completeness of the sets you’ve been posting.  I’m looking forward to seeing more tools from your collection! 

Jim C.
Title: Re: Old socket sets from before WW-2
Post by: lptools on January 19, 2019, 07:10:46 AM
hello, Coolford. Another nice one!!! Regards, Lou
Title: Re: Old socket sets from before WW-2
Post by: Yadda on January 19, 2019, 07:41:06 AM
Fantastic set.  I love the logo for Autokit!
Title: Re: Old socket sets from before WW-2
Post by: coolford on January 20, 2019, 02:07:55 PM
Walden socket set No. 27, the last one they sold in a wood box.  Box is supposed to be made of American Chestnut.  This one is complete according to the advertisement shown on Alloy Artifacts.  They apparently do not have this set.  I also have the No. 26 set which is  the same except does  not include the square sockets. 
Title: Re: Old socket sets from before WW-2
Post by: Northwoods on January 20, 2019, 04:38:38 PM
That is really something!

How do you come to have it?
Title: Re: Old socket sets from before WW-2
Post by: coolford on January 20, 2019, 05:15:11 PM
I bought this set on e-bay about 15 years ago, very incomplete and pieced it together over the years.  The most difficult items to find are the flat stamped wrenches and the top to the brace.  My No. 26 set is still in need of a couple of the stamped wrenches.  Looking back, I think i liked the sturdy boxes.
Title: Re: Old socket sets from before WW-2
Post by: papadan on January 20, 2019, 09:24:34 PM
Coolford, I want your address and the schedule for your next vacation trip. Damn, you have some nice tool sets!
Title: Re: Old socket sets from before WW-2
Post by: coolford on January 21, 2019, 01:18:50 PM
Hey papadan, glad you like them, here is the address:  Joe Dumbutt, 007 Deep Gully Trace, Barbed Wire, SD 3006.
Title: Re: Old socket sets from before WW-2
Post by: Yadda on January 21, 2019, 06:41:38 PM
Hey papadan, glad you like them, here is the address:  Joe Dumbutt, 007 Deep Gully Trace, Barbed Wire, SD 3006.

 :grin:
Title: Re: Old socket sets from before WW-2
Post by: papadan on January 21, 2019, 08:11:43 PM
Wait just a dam minute there. I didn't know Coolford and Yadda were brothers, now I find out they are both Dumbutts! ;-)
Title: Re: Old socket sets from before WW-2
Post by: p_toad on January 22, 2019, 04:08:03 PM
Anyway, that can't be his correct address as i was there last week and it's only an empty lot.   :undecided:
Title: Re: Old socket sets from before WW-2
Post by: papadan on January 22, 2019, 10:28:50 PM
Anyway, that can't be his correct address as i was there last week and it's only an empty lot.   :undecided:
He got you Toad, the 3006 zip is North Dakota!
Title: Re: Old socket sets from before WW-2
Post by: coolford on January 23, 2019, 02:05:44 PM
It is also a 30-06.
Title: Re: Old socket sets from before WW-2
Post by: coolford on January 23, 2019, 02:12:33 PM
When I started this thread I had hoped that others had some old sets to show---so, either you don't have them or don't want to show them.  So here is another Walden, it is a No. 11 and near the end of the pressed steel sockets, the last was the No. 12 I showed previously.  The box appears to be leather, but its hard to tell sometimes and the pressed paper boxes can look the same.
Title: Re: Old socket sets from before WW-2
Post by: papadan on January 23, 2019, 05:01:02 PM
It is also a 30-06.
It's 3006 because I dashed!!! I wish I had some of those cool old sets like you have. I would show them off too.
Title: Re: Old socket sets from before WW-2
Post by: p_toad on January 23, 2019, 06:22:12 PM
either you don't have them

Unfortunately, i don't have them...   nice looking sets.   :embarrassed:
Title: Re: Old socket sets from before WW-2
Post by: Jim C. on January 23, 2019, 06:23:31 PM
Hey coolford,

I’m in the “former” category.  I have absolutely nothing like the great sets you’ve been posting. Nothing.  I’m going to have to be an envious bystander in this thread.  I really do like seeing some tools from your collection.  I hope you’ll keep posting them.

Jim C.
Title: Re: Old socket sets from before WW-2
Post by: Yadda on January 23, 2019, 06:38:28 PM
Hey coolford,

I’m in the “former” category.  I have absolutely nothing like the great sets you’ve been posting. Nothing.  I’m going to have to be an envious bystander in this thread.  I really do like seeing some tools from your collection.  I hope you’ll keep posting them.

Jim C.

+1
Please do keep posting.  I learn something new with every post.
Title: Re: Old socket sets from before WW-2
Post by: gibsontool on January 23, 2019, 08:23:12 PM
I have a fair amount of Walden stuff but I don't think I have any sets that are as nice as yours. Well done, Jim.M
Title: Re: Old socket sets from before WW-2
Post by: coolford on January 26, 2019, 04:52:47 PM
Okay, although I have some other Walden sets I will switch to some others.  Here is a socket set by Eastern Machine Screw Corporation also marked H & G.  Not much out there on this one, and may be the only socket set the company produced.  This set is not too common, but they are out there on e-bay from time to time.

Note---The ratchet is the item in the upper right hand corner.
Title: Re: Old socket sets from before WW-2
Post by: Jim C. on January 26, 2019, 05:54:40 PM
Another gem!  I’m a fan of this thread!  Nice set coolford.

Jim C.
Title: Re: Old socket sets from before WW-2
Post by: Yadda on January 26, 2019, 06:48:12 PM
I be the only one, but a wooden case just seems to make everything a bit better.  Great set. 
Title: Re: Old socket sets from before WW-2
Post by: coolford on January 28, 2019, 02:59:45 PM
Yes, I like wood boxes, but its hard to find them anymore except for Mossberg.  At any rate, here is a change of pace, a Bog Tool Co. set in a metal box.  This set dates to the 1930's and the ratchet has a patent date of 1932.  Note the 8 point socket set, so they were still serving the square nut needs of buyers.
Title: Re: Old socket sets from before WW-2
Post by: coolford on January 29, 2019, 03:00:16 PM
I guess the Bog set didn't turn anyone on as no comments.  Here is another wood box and in this case Alloy Artifacts does not even mention this manufacturer.  This set is also from the 1920's and is from a famous name.  Most people do not even know that L. S. Starrett Co. made socket sets ( well, only one socket set in two forms).  This set is the No. 443-A which contains the drill attachment ( more on that later).  This set is complete and I have only seen one other that is complete.
Title: Re: Old socket sets from before WW-2
Post by: skipskip on January 29, 2019, 10:08:22 PM
I guess the Bog set didn't turn anyone on as no comments. ]

Bog is so rare  here that I was surprised to see a whole set.

I may have half a dozen odd Bog pieces, but nothing like that

Skip
Title: Re: Old socket sets from before WW-2
Post by: Jim C. on January 30, 2019, 07:49:00 AM
Wow!  I missed the Bog set!  How did that happen?  I never even heard of Bog tools.  Coolford, you’ve been introducing me to all kinds of “new to me” tools.  This is a great thread.  How many antique socket sets do you have?  I’m learning some things and I’m really impressed with the depth of your collection.   I truly appreciate it because I know that acquiring a collection like that is not something that happens overnight.

Jim C.
Title: Re: Old socket sets from before WW-2
Post by: Jim C. on January 30, 2019, 08:09:47 AM
Hey coolford,

I am familiar with Starrett tools.  My paternal grandfather was a tool maker at Ford Motor, and then later at Timken Gear and Axle.  (He was a union organizer back in the early days.) Anyway, he used Starrett measuring tools all the time, as well as measuring tools from other manufacturers (like Brown and Sharpe).  I doubt he ever used a Starrett socket set on the job, but who knows.  That’s another great set from what I’m thinking is a great collection.

Jim C.
Title: Re: Old socket sets from before WW-2
Post by: lptools on January 30, 2019, 10:46:48 AM
Hello, Coolford. Another great socket set  in a wood box!!! Thanks for sharing, Lou
Title: Re: Old socket sets from before WW-2
Post by: coolford on January 30, 2019, 02:22:56 PM
This is another L. S. Starrett socket set No. 443-B which does not include the drill attachment or the parts that go with it.  Really the only thing missing from this set is the extension.  You will notice the large open space above the end of the handle, and if you will go back to the other set you will see the round item  that is the drill attachment.  Well, what is or what does a drill attachment do?  Starrett as far as I know was the only company to put a drill attachment in a socket set.  Well, of course it allows you to drill.  In the second picture you will see the Starrett drill attachment set up. Starting from the left, the backer plate, then the holder to keep the main body of the drill attachment from turning, and then the ratchet from the socket set.  The drill bit was not part of the set.  As you ratchet the drill into the work the threads inside the drill attachment turn in the opposite direction pushing the drill into the work.  Of course you have to back it up with something and the little plate goes up against it.  The drill bits are not the type used in braces, as the tang on those is too small.  The tang on the drill bits used in ratchet drills are about twice the size of those used in braces.  Like those in the last picture.
Title: Re: Old socket sets from before WW-2
Post by: Jim C. on January 30, 2019, 04:49:40 PM
Hey coolford,

You’re absolutely off the charts with these early wooden box socket sets.  I don’t know about some of the others, but you’re introducing me to tools I never knew existed.  I’ve seen some odd lot sockets like those you’ve presented, but never in complete sets, and never to the extent that you’ve presented so far.  This is clearly a first class collection of early socket sets.   I can only imagine what it took to assemble a collection like that.  I hope you’ll keep posting.  I’m a fan and a subscriber to this thread!

The Starrett drill attachment is really a neat contraption.  Until today, I never knew such a thing existed.  It certainly was not in with the Starrett tools I inherited from my grandfather.  I guess I’m not entirely sure how it works.  Is it only for drilling into wood, or soft materials? 

Jim C.
Title: Re: Old socket sets from before WW-2
Post by: Yadda on January 30, 2019, 05:46:00 PM
Yes, I like wood boxes, but its hard to find them anymore except for Mossberg.  At any rate, here is a change of pace, a Bog Tool Co. set in a metal box.  This set dates to the 1930's and the ratchet has a patent date of 1932.  Note the 8 point socket set, so they were still serving the square nut needs of buyers.

I like the metal boxes too! Just slightly below the wooden boxes. Never heard of Bog Tool Co. until now. 
Title: Re: Old socket sets from before WW-2
Post by: Yadda on January 30, 2019, 05:51:12 PM
Hey coolford,

You’re absolutely off the charts with these early wooden box socket sets.  I don’t know about some of the others, but you’re introducing me to tools I never knew existed.  I’ve seen some odd lot sockets like those you’ve presented, but never in complete sets, and never to the extent that you’ve presented so far.  This is clearly a first class collection of early socket sets.   I can only imagine what it took to assemble a collection like that.  I hope you’ll keep posting.  I’m a fan and a subscriber to this thread!

The Starrett drill attachment is really a neat contraption.  Until today, I never knew such a thing existed.  It certainly was not in with the Starrett tools I inherited from my grandfather.  I guess I’m not entirely sure how it works.  Is it only for drilling into wood, or soft materials? 

Jim C.

+1

Fantastic sets. Just utterly fantastic!
Title: Re: Old socket sets from before WW-2
Post by: coolford on January 31, 2019, 06:37:16 AM
The drill attachment is designed to use metal cutting drill bits for drilling metal.  Its use is to supplement the old stationary post or barn drill as it allows one to drill metal in the field.  The Starrett drill attachment is not up to the job that "real" drill ratchets accomplish.  I will post a couple pictures of standard drill ratchets in the what is it thread.
Title: Re: Old socket sets from before WW-2
Post by: Jim C. on January 31, 2019, 07:29:42 AM
Metal, huh?  I would never have thought a drill that large in diameter could be literally pushed through steel by hand. That would take some time depending on the thickness of the material.  Even though drilling into metal is done at slower speeds than into wood, there still needs to be sufficient RPMs to do it.  Right?  The user must have to keep significant downward pressure on it while in operation. Coolford, have you tried drilling anything with that gadget?  Does it produce good results?

Jim C.
Title: Re: Old socket sets from before WW-2
Post by: coolford on January 31, 2019, 03:25:33 PM
Well, since we are talking about it here, here is a drill ratchet that is more like those used by iron workers in the old days.  I have it direct from the horses mouth ( iron worker who worked on the iron frame sky scrapers in New York City) that these were used up in the air when a hole was missed on the ground or in the wrong place.  Most holes were drilled on the ground and the beams raised and bolted and or riveted in place.  I also have a couple of the pliers/tongs used to handle the hot rivets.
Title: Re: Old socket sets from before WW-2
Post by: Jim C. on February 02, 2019, 08:21:35 AM
Hey coolford,

Thanks for posting another ratchet drill.  Can you imagine trying to drill a hole in iron sereral stories up using that thing?  I’d love to see it in action, just to see how it works.  Let’s say a worker had to drill a hole through a 1/2” thick beam.  How long would that take doing the job by hand?  It must have worked......

Jim C.
Title: Re: Old socket sets from before WW-2
Post by: coolford on February 02, 2019, 02:30:39 PM
Since I last posted the Walden No. 1 lubrication set I purchased a partial set with the needed two sockets.  I still need the proper drive tool and use instead a Walden short extension and a tee bar.  The top of the box is dinged and I have two others in the same condition, they have received hard use since 1920.
Title: Re: Old socket sets from before WW-2
Post by: coolford on February 02, 2019, 02:36:19 PM
Here are some socket sets from another manufacturer, Packer Auto Specialty Co. usually known as "Ray Socket Sets".  The oldest is in a wood box in the first picture, the next is one of the first metal boxes with a standard ratchet and the third is the same set with the upgraded ratchet.  These are all the smallest sets they made.  There are three different larger sets and I will show them later.
Title: Re: Old socket sets from before WW-2
Post by: Yadda on February 02, 2019, 05:42:25 PM
Fantastic sets! The labels for Ray are great!
Title: Re: Old socket sets from before WW-2
Post by: Jim C. on February 03, 2019, 08:10:12 AM
Hi coolford,

You must be getting tired of hearing it, but those are great sets!  I know I’ve told you this before, but I can’t say it enough.  I’m so impressed with the completeness and condition of the sets you’re posting. While I may not totally appreciate the rarity or significance of what I’m looking at without some guidance from you, I do fully understand what it takes to acquire a collection like yours.  It takes time, patience, discipline, some luck, and a serious commitment of resources with the understanding that you’re in it for the love of collecting rather financial gain.  Anyway.....

Why are the sets referred to as Ray sets, versus Packer sets? 

Jim C.
Title: Re: Old socket sets from before WW-2
Post by: Northwoods on February 03, 2019, 12:26:18 PM
Packer was founded by Eben R. Packer.  Could it be that the middle name was Raymond?
Title: Re: Old socket sets from before WW-2
Post by: coolford on February 03, 2019, 12:50:56 PM
I have no idea where "Ray" came from, except it was their trademark.  Northwoods may be right.
Title: Re: Old socket sets from before WW-2
Post by: Northwoods on February 03, 2019, 01:28:33 PM
When I started this thread I had hoped that others had some old sets to show---so, either you don't have them or don't want to show them.  So here is another Walden, it is a No. 11 and near the end of the pressed steel sockets, the last was the No. 12 I showed previously.  The box appears to be leather, but its hard to tell sometimes and the pressed paper boxes can look the same.
I'm looking at a Walden add, and they call it "fiber."   Sooooooooo paper.
Title: Re: Old socket sets from before WW-2
Post by: coolford on February 12, 2019, 03:50:09 PM
This is a continuation of the Packer Auto Specialty Co. sets usually marked "Ray" and usually known as ray sets.  As I'm only allowed three pictures I will show the next two larger sizes and make another post for the largest one.  The first picture is the largest they made with pressed steel sockets and included a set of square sockets as well as the hex sockets.  Hard to date, but probably 1920's.  The next set in pictures 2 and 3 is when they switched to forged sockets which may have been available only in the larger sized sets.  I have never come across a small set with the forged sockets.  The sockets apparently were of good quality as I have only seen one split socket.  This set contained both hex and square sockets as well as other drive tools.
Title: Re: Old socket sets from before WW-2
Post by: lptools on February 12, 2019, 04:17:28 PM
Hello, Coolford. Thanks for sharing more of your outstanding collection!!! Regards, Lou
Title: Re: Old socket sets from before WW-2
Post by: coolford on February 15, 2019, 03:48:33 PM
Here is the largest "Ray" set, it is missing the ratchet and some fixed socket wrenches.
Title: Re: Old socket sets from before WW-2
Post by: coolford on February 15, 2019, 04:19:48 PM
Time to switch of another company, Hinsdale Tool co.  The GC-20 set shown in the first two pictures is 1/2" hex drive, an early set from the 1920's.  Note the inside label shows both Hinsdale and Sears Roebuck & Co.  Both square and hex sockets but needs a hex ratchet.  Only hex set I have come across.  The third picture is a CN-50 set and is called a mechanics set made of chrome nickel.  It is 1/2 inch drive but in the same box as the hex set so is probably late 20's or early 30's.  Note the breaker bar also converts to a tee wrench.
Title: Re: Old socket sets from before WW-2
Post by: d42jeep on February 16, 2019, 03:41:48 AM
I’m not sure which ratchet your early Walden set is supposed to have but I have a #716 dated by AA from 1919 to 1922.
-Don
Title: Re: Old socket sets from before WW-2
Post by: d42jeep on February 16, 2019, 04:14:51 AM
Here is my almost complete early Blackhawk set that I received from my neighbor who picked it up at a swap meet in Southern California. It came with some Hinsdale pieces as well. The label is one that should have come in the set.
-Don
Title: Re: Old socket sets from before WW-2
Post by: Jim C. on February 16, 2019, 02:28:00 PM
I’m really getting into this thread!  I wish I had something to add to it.

Jim C.
Title: Re: Old socket sets from before WW-2
Post by: coolford on February 16, 2019, 02:43:55 PM
Don---thanks for the try, but I need a Hinsdale hex ratchet. 
Title: Re: Old socket sets from before WW-2
Post by: d42jeep on February 16, 2019, 08:59:50 PM
Like this?
-Don