Tool Talk

Classic Auto and Motorcycle Tools => Classic Auto and Motorcycle Tools => Topic started by: Jim C. on February 24, 2019, 07:36:07 PM

Title: Sears/Craftsman Tap and Die Sets
Post by: Jim C. on February 24, 2019, 07:36:07 PM
A few weeks back, I bought the set of Sears Craftsman SAE taps and dies depicted below.  The tools themselves and the plastic case are in great condition for their age.  Based on the tools included, I'd estimate the set is probably from right around 1972.  Some of the tools have a pointed letter "A" in the word CR"A"FTSM"A"N and some have a flat top letter "A."  I wish I could say that I got a smoking hot deal on the set, but I didn't.  It was an eBay purchase where the seller accepted my best offer.  I paid a fair price for it.  Here's where things get interesting.  The set was described as "Complete."  Well it was complete, and from what I could see in the auction photos, everything looked good.  So, I made an offer, it was accepted, and a few days later the set arrived in the mail.  When I unpacked it, I was very pleased with what I initially saw.  I looked at every tool under a magnifying glass to make sure everything was vintage correct and undamaged.  Perfect......until I looked at the very last, and smallest tap in the set, the 4-40.  While EVERY other tool was stamped "Craftsman" and made in the USA, etc., the dead last tool I looked at, the 4-40 tap, was unmarked but for its size, which read, "4-40" and its origins, which read, "JAPAN."  Needless to say I was bummed.  Well, I had a few options.  I could contact the seller and complain.  The problem was that the set was described as "complete," which it was, and the seller never said all the tools were original to the set or all marked as Craftsman......and I didn't ask prior to making an offer.  I was sort of stuck with it.  My next option was to scour eBay looking for another vintage correct Craftsman 4-40 tap.  So, I searched eBay every day for about a week and realized it was going to be a tough tool to find.  My third, and best option, was to ask for help.  I thought about who I knew that might have the tap.  While a few guys came to mind, I had a feeling this one guy would likely have it.  The guy who collects everything.....coolford.  I reached out to him, he confirmed that he had exactly what I was looking for, and a few days later the tap was in my mailbox.  He gifted me the tap and truly helped me complete the set with the right tool.  I wanted to take a minute to thank him!  There’s a great tool enthusiast community here on this website.  It may not be the biggest, but it is absolutely the best.  Many thanks coolford!!

Jim C.     
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman SAE Tap and Die Set
Post by: p_toad on February 25, 2019, 11:01:57 PM
Too cool, Coolford.   Thank you both for sharing that!   :smiley:
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman SAE Tap and Die Set
Post by: coolford on February 26, 2019, 08:11:04 AM
Jim---looks even better knowing everything is correct.  Check the Owatonna socket wrenches in wrench forum.
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman SAE Tap and Die Set
Post by: Jim C. on February 26, 2019, 09:16:31 AM
coolford,

YOU ARE THE MAN!!!!!  Thank you again!

Jim C.
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman SAE Tap and Die Set
Post by: Notlobster on March 02, 2019, 05:33:27 PM
Nicely done, coolford.

One of my prized possessions is that exact tap and die set, purchased new by my father ~ 50 years ago.

The Kromedge taps and dies are excellent! - I now have 3 sets.

Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman SAE Tap and Die Set
Post by: Jim C. on March 02, 2019, 06:23:13 PM
Hi Notlobster,

How about a few pictures of your Craftsman Kromedge tap and die sets?

Jim C.
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman SAE Tap and Die Set
Post by: lptools on March 03, 2019, 11:20:29 AM
Hello, Coolford . That was very gracious of you to help Jim complete the set , that would have been a long search for a tap that small, AND with the Craftsman stamp!!!!Regards, Lou
Title: Sears Craftsman Kromedge Tap & Die Set
Post by: lptools on March 03, 2019, 11:31:51 AM
Hello, Here is a Sears Craftsman 9 5200 SAE Tap & Hexagon Die Set that I have had for a while. Never been used, complete, I left the former owner's hand printed chart inside the lid. Regards, Lou
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman SAE Tap and Die Set
Post by: Jim C. on March 04, 2019, 07:44:25 AM
Wow!  That set is mint Lou!
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman SAE Tap and Die Set
Post by: skipskip on March 04, 2019, 11:40:16 AM
Not Craftsman, but sold by Sears

Tools are marked 'Made in USA', but no brand name


(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7834/40315973593_ebccfbf6c9_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/24qzUmZ)DSCF9976 (https://flic.kr/p/24qzUmZ) by Skip Albright (https://www.flickr.com/photos/skipskip/), on Flickr

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7884/40315973383_4489475dfa_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/24qzUin)DSCF9978 (https://flic.kr/p/24qzUin) by Skip Albright (https://www.flickr.com/photos/skipskip/), on Flickr

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7893/46557337574_2cc80bd96e_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2dW7wqN)DSCF9979 (https://flic.kr/p/2dW7wqN) by Skip Albright (https://www.flickr.com/photos/skipskip/), on Flickr
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman SAE Tap and Die Set
Post by: Jim C. on March 04, 2019, 01:38:45 PM
Hey skipskip,

That’s a very nice old set!  It looks to be complete too.  Nice find.  Any story behind it?

Jim C.

Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman SAE Tap and Die Set
Post by: lptools on March 04, 2019, 03:57:25 PM
Nice!!!!!
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman SAE Tap and Die Set
Post by: d42jeep on March 04, 2019, 04:27:52 PM
Those look kind of familiar. Here are two that are results of trades.
-Don
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman SAE Tap and Die Set
Post by: Jim C. on March 04, 2019, 05:04:41 PM
I’d say they look very familiar!
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman SAE Tap and Die Set
Post by: lptools on March 04, 2019, 06:18:13 PM
Hello, Jim. Thanks!!! It is most likely unused by me due to the fact that I forgot where it was!!! Regards, Lou
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman SAE Tap and Die Set
Post by: Jim C. on November 25, 2019, 08:34:47 PM
I recently picked another gently used Sears Craftsman SAE tap and die set.  Based on the set number, 5213, I'd guess this set was available between 1964 and 1968 give or take. 

Jim C.   
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman SAE Tap and Die Set
Post by: p_toad on November 26, 2019, 11:34:17 PM
nice.   i've never run across one of those...did pick up an interrupted pipe tap some time back...i'll have to get a picture.
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman SAE Tap and Die Set
Post by: Bill Houghton on February 11, 2020, 10:28:01 AM
Back when they were still selling proper adjustable dies, I see.
(http://www.papawswrench.com/vboard/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=24441.0;attach=57503;image)

The later hex dies have their place - I've used them with a wrench once or twice, when I couldn't fit the die handle into the space - but it would be nice to have a set with adjustable dies, even if I only use the adjustability once in a blue moon.
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman SAE Tap and Die Set
Post by: Todd F. on June 04, 2020, 06:37:28 PM
This thread got me thinking so I dug through my tool drawers and pulled out my Craftsman 5201, 41-piece tap and die set that I bought around 1975.  Its been used and abused over the years and almost complete. Back in the day when you broke a tap you could just walk into Sears and pull a replacement “Kromedge” tap off the hook and give the cashier $1.99 and all was well.  Those days are gone so my set had a couple of Home Depot replacement taps. I posted my missing taps on “The Missing Link” forum. I’d like to give very special thanks to FrankLee for the 1/4-20 tap and to Iptools for the 5/16-18 tap. I feel complete now.

Bonus: When I pulled out both trays out so I could clean the crud off the case, I found the 29 page, “Sears Craftsman Handbook Of Taps, Dies and Threading Accessories”.  About half of it is just all the sets and accessories that Sears sold at the time but the other half has a lot of good information about cutting threads. (Who knew you were supposed to use kerosene mixed with lard oil when cutting threads in stainless steel?)

Again, many thanks to Iptools and FrankLee.

Note: While putting the dies back in the tray after wiping them off, I noticed that I have two 7/16- 14 dies and no 7/16-20.  Now I know I’ve never used either of those in the 45 years since I bought the set. It had to have been like that since the beginning. How observant am I?  I’ll post the 7/16-20 die on “The Missing Link” forum but I won’t be too upset if nothing turns up because this is exactly the way it was when I bought it.
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman SAE Tap and Die Set
Post by: Jim C. on June 04, 2020, 08:48:33 PM
Nice set Todd!  It even has the often missing little screwdriver.   :grin:
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman SAE Tap and Die Set
Post by: d42jeep on June 04, 2020, 10:06:41 PM
I traded for this lightly used one a couple of years ago.
-Don
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman SAE Tap and Die Set
Post by: Jim C. on June 05, 2020, 07:06:28 AM
Nice looking set Don!  I’ve found that older tap and die sets are either well used and usually missing pieces or are in near mint to virtually unused condition.  I always wonder about those vintage NOS sets.  Someone paid retail price for it, brought it home, and then what?  They got put away and that was it.  Relatively speaking, those sets were never cheap, so I wonder why someone would shell out good money for a complete set and then not use it.
Jim C.
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman SAE Tap and Die Set
Post by: Bill Houghton on June 08, 2020, 04:44:31 PM
Nice looking set Don!  I’ve found that older tap and die sets are either well used and usually missing pieces or are in near mint to virtually unused condition.  I always wonder about those vintage NOS sets.  Someone paid retail price for it, brought it home, and then what?  They got put away and that was it.  Relatively speaking, those sets were never cheap, so I wonder why someone would shell out good money for a complete set and then not use it.
Jim C.
Probably following the "better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it" principle - and then they never needed it!
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman SAE Tap and Die Set
Post by: d42jeep on June 09, 2020, 12:31:54 PM
I haven’t used it much myself, yet. I tend to grab my old Ace Hanson set from habit.
-Don
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman SAE Tap and Die Set
Post by: Todd F. on June 11, 2020, 08:50:26 PM
I know this topic is about SAE sets but I just wanted to post pictures of my Metric tap set. I’ll remove the post if anyone objects. I bought this set in the mid-70s to supplement my #5201 SAE set (reply 18).  It served me well through many VW bugs and buses and a Triumph GT6. Amazingly it is all original.  I never broke a single tap.

The plastic case says it’s a 15-piece set even though there are only 14 taps. Maybe they were counting the case itself as a piece? I don’t recall anything else coming inside the case.  I thought maybe it came with a pitch gauge but mine is in its original red plastic sleeve and wouldn’t fit in the case. I found a 14-piece, taps-only set in the 1976-77 catalog that has the exact same taps as my set but it has a different part number.  Go Sears.

Todd F.

Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman SAE Tap and Die Set
Post by: lptools on June 12, 2020, 07:26:11 AM
Hello, Todd. Nice set of Metric Taps!!
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman SAE Tap and Die Set
Post by: Jim C. on June 12, 2020, 10:05:54 PM
Good looking original set Todd.  I think case itself is considered a part of the set, and as such, is counted as one of the pieces.  That was a pretty common practice by Sears/Craftsman.  In another thread within this forum, I posted the complete “25 piece” set of Cman Whitworth tools.  Well, if you count all the wrenches and sockets, etc. there are 24 actual tools. The tool box that came with the set is considered the 25th tool.  I also posted a similar thread that depicted the Cman “26 piece” metric set.  Once again, there are 25 actual tools plus the 26th piece..... the tool box.

Jim C.
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman SAE Tap and Die Set
Post by: Jim C. on November 28, 2020, 03:19:25 PM
Very recently I had a chance to scavenge an old pole barn about an hour south of my house, that was filled up with planks and slabs of hardwood that consisted mostly of a lot of walnut, some oak, elm and cherry.  Mixed in were several huge slabs of catalpa.  I ended up bringing home a little bit of everything.  The wood belonged to a man who owned a portable saw mill, which was also stored in the building.  The man’s health was failing so his son was starting to lighten the load.  After filling up my van with wood, I found out that the building next door also belonged to the same guy.  It was a machine shop at one time, but over the years, it ended up as a “catch all” for everything.

There was stuff everywhere!  Tools, machines, car parts, junk, etc.  Just ten steps into the building and I must have seen a dozen things I was interested in buying.  So as I walked/climbed/crawled/squeezed my way though the building with the owner’s son, I’d occasionally ask, “How about this Wilton vise.  Is it for sale?”  The answer, “No.”  Well, that went on for about forty five minutes.  I asked about several items to include, sockets, wrenches, a small sheet metal brake, an atlas lathe, and countless other things.  Nothing was for sale.  So I asked the son what was up.  Why did we just maneuver our way through that building and I ended up with nothing?  He knew I was offering cash.  Well, he finally told me that his father wanted to hire an auctioneer to come and inventory everything and then hold a public auction.  I sort of laughed, and said something like, “There’s enough here for everyone, but if you’re set on giving an auctioneer a cut of the profits, that’s your business.”  He shrugged his shoulders and that was that.

As we were walking out of the building, I saw a tap and die set that I recognized as being an early 2000s vintage Craftsman metric set.  I actually saw it when we first entered the building and took a quick look at it.  From what I could see, it was missing a couple pieces.  So anyway, as we walked past it on our way out, I just rattled off, “What about this tap and die set?  You know, it’s missing a couple pieces.”  To my surprise, he said, “Okay.”

It was really dirty and some light surface rust covered most of the pieces.  It was missing the little screwdriver (which I replaced with one I had) and it was also missing the 18mm 1.50 tap and die.  The price was right and with a little elbow grease, everything cleaned up nicely.  While I had a few metric taps and dies that I bought as needed, I never had an almost complete set.  As far as I can tell, it’s set # 9-52373.  Sears offered it between 2000 and 2007.

Jim C.
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman SAE Tap and Die Set
Post by: coolford on November 28, 2020, 03:35:46 PM
Good show Jim, you finally got your metric set.
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman SAE Tap and Die Set
Post by: Jim C. on November 28, 2020, 05:49:48 PM
Good show Jim, you finally got your metric set.

coolford,

Yes, I did......well almost anyway.  There was a lot of nice stuff there, but it all needed some TLC.  Nothing was in NOS or even really nice condition.  It had just been neglected for several decades.  But with a little time, know-how and a few dollars, most of it could have been rehabilitated/restored.  Some of the things I saw included a couple Wilton bullet vises, a nice Delta drill press with an undamaged cast iron pulley cover, a few different size Di Arco sheet metal brakes, LOTS of Snap On sockets, two different sized Atlas lathes, dozens and dozens of old Williams and Jorgensen clamps.  Hand tools everywhere and cabinets I couldn’t get to because there was so much stuff blocking them.  If they go the auctioneer route, it will take awhile to inventory everything.  And if the auction occurs, I’ll probably attend! :smiley:

Jim C.
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman SAE Tap and Die Set
Post by: Todd F. on December 31, 2020, 04:35:18 PM
I picked this set up a while ago and wanted to share it. It’s a number 5452, 40-piece SAE tap and adjustable die set that appears in the Craftsman Tool Catalog from 1953 to 1957. This is before the “Kromedge” taps and dies. As far as I can tell, it’s the first set offered in a plastic case. The taps are unique in that the smaller taps have the Craftsman logo and size information stamped vertically on the shank but they differ from the older sets in the wooden boxes that have the logo vertical but the size info is horizontal.  These also have two stamped lines going around the shank at either end of the info stamp. The taps do not have the drill size stamped on them like the Kromedge taps.  The plastic case is also unusual. The upper tray lifts out as usual but the lower tray is not removable. It is a molded part of the case itself. This set appears to be 100% original with the exception of the screwdriver (of course).  Another unique feature of this set, and the early versions of the 5209 set, is the smallest tap and die are size 4-36 instead of the 4-40 in all of the following sets.  Catalog photo is from 1957. 

I have a second one of these sets that is incomplete with a broken case. I can part it out of anyone needs to fill in a set.

Todd F
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman SAE Tap and Die Set
Post by: AutoMechanic on December 31, 2020, 04:52:18 PM
Nice tap and die sets. I love old Craftsman stuff, I don’t have any of their taps or dies though.
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman SAE Tap and Die Set
Post by: lptools on January 01, 2021, 04:55:26 AM
Hello, Jim. I thought that set configuration looked familiar!! Could that have been made for Sears/Craftsman by  Hanson??
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman SAE Tap and Die Set
Post by: Todd F. on January 01, 2021, 11:40:15 AM
Looks like it. Craftsman never made anything themselves.
Todd F
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman SAE Tap and Die Set
Post by: Jim C. on January 01, 2021, 05:24:54 PM
Hey Todd,

Good to hear from you!  Nice looking set of vintage Cman taps and dies!  Great find!  Thanks for posting a few photos and a little bit of history too.

Jim C.
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman SAE Tap and Die Set
Post by: AutoMechanic on January 07, 2021, 01:46:52 AM
Nice sets. :smiley:
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman SAE Tap and Die Set
Post by: Todd F. on January 10, 2021, 04:40:31 PM
I just got this one in the mail yesterday. It popped up on eBay and I had to grab it. Sorry if I bid against any of you. I paid more than I should have but I haven’t seen this set before.  It’s a 40-piece set that goes all the way up to 3/4- inch but does not have the machine screw sizes. The part number is 9-5212 and doesn’t show up in any of the catalogs I have (and that’s a lot).  There is a 9-5212C that shows up in 1969 but it is a 59-piece set that includes the machine screw sizes and easy-outs. I think this set is older than that. Here is my logic. Inside the lid of every Craftsman tap and/or die set, they have all the Craftsman tap and die sizes listed on a chart with the tap drill sizes. Even for the sizes that are not included in the set. The set I just got has that chart inside the lid as usual. The machine screw sizes are listed even though this set doesn’t include them. The smallest size listed is #4-36. Craftsman stopped using the 4-36 in 1962 and all tap and die sets from 1963 and after, came with a #4-40.  The die stocks have the sliding “fingers” on the guide instead of the pivoting “fingers” that were also introduced in 1963. My best guess is that this was sold in stores, or by some other professional channel, somewhere between 1959 and 1962. This set is in excellent condition. The only evidence of use is circular scratch on the large die stock. The tap wrenches were still gunked up with cosmoline and took some effort to get them moving again. If anyone has any information on this 5212 set, please let me know.

Todd F
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman SAE Tap and Die Set
Post by: Yadda on January 10, 2021, 06:16:23 PM
Beautiful set! 
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman SAE Tap and Die Set
Post by: Jim C. on January 11, 2021, 07:20:56 AM
That’s a great looking set, Todd!  I suspect that it didn’t come cheap.  A very nice find for sure.

Jim C.
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman SAE Tap and Die Set
Post by: Todd F. on March 26, 2021, 08:26:18 PM
Here on the west coast there aren’t as many tool shows as the east coast or mid-west, and then there is covid, so I’m stuck with what I can find on eBay. These “Hollow Handle” sets were sold by Craftsman from 1962 to 1966 according to the Craftsman catalogs. I found the tap set about 2 years ago and I have been searching for the die set ever since. One finally popped up so here they are. There is also a machine screw set that remains elusive. As you can see from the pictures, the handles are hollow and hold the taps or dies inside. Then tap set is stamped “Made In Norway”. They are fairly heavy and appear to be cast then chrome plated. They come with the same standard Kromedge taps and dies that come in all the other Craftsman sets at that time. The catalog lists the five dies in the die set but there is room inside for one more, you’d think they could have sprung for 10-24 just to fill it up. Of course, back then the catalog price for a 10-24 die was 99¢.  Guess it was up to you to fill that empty space. The catalog picture is from 1964 hand tool catalog.
Thanks for reading.
Todd F
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman SAE Tap and Die Set
Post by: Yadda on March 27, 2021, 06:43:28 AM
Useful and gizmotic.  I like them!
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman SAE Tap and Die Set
Post by: Todd F. on October 09, 2021, 01:52:18 PM
Hey Jim or anyone else.
I have what is probably a dumb question. Almost all of my Craftsman taps and dies have the letters "VM" stamped on them. I am assuming this is some kind of forge marking. Does anyone know what this means?
Thanks
Todd F.
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman SAE Tap and Die Set
Post by: Jim C. on October 15, 2021, 01:32:15 PM
Hey Todd,

I’m gonna guess Danaher made the taps and dies.  Also, I sent you a couple PMs.

Jim C.
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman SAE Tap and Die Set
Post by: Todd F. on September 12, 2022, 10:31:25 PM
I have finally found the holy grail of Craftsman tap and die sets. That’s right, The Craftsman Whitworth Set. Unfortunately, the person selling it also knew it was the holy grail and I paid dearly for it.  In my defense, it is complete, all original and in excellent condition.
In 1959, Craftsman introduced the “Kromedge” type of taps and dies with the 5209 SAE set, 5500 Metric set and the 5501 Whitworth set in the now familiar plastic case with the two red trays to safely cradle them.  There were also some sets with cuts up to 3/4inch that came in wooden boxes like the 5210 and 5211C.  The SAE set was in a grey case, the Metric was in a black case and the Whitworth was in green.  I believe the wrench sets sold at that time used the same color scheme.  The silk-screened labels on the Whitworth and Metric sets pictured some taps and dies arranged to look like a little car. I guess they were suggesting that only a foreign auto mechanic would be interested in purchasing these sets.  Both the Whitworth and Metric sets share identical plastic trays and share the same thread pitch gauge that has metric and inch pitch in the same gauge. All of the taps and dies in the Whitworth set are marked “WHIT” even though half them are the same diameter and pitch as SAE taps and dies. For a moment I wondered why they didn’t just throw in some SAE pieces then remembered that SAE uses a 60 degree thread profile and Whitworth uses 55 degrees. So a 1/4-20 SAE and a 1/4-20 WHIT are not created equal.
While the 5209 SAE set lived on until 1984 in various configurations, the 5501 Whitworth and 5500 Metric sets disappeared from the Craftsman catalog in 1963. There were no metric tap and die sets listed in the Craftsman catalog for ten years and the Whitworth set never returned at all.
Thanks for reading
Todd F.
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman SAE Tap and Die Set
Post by: amecks on September 13, 2022, 04:57:14 AM
Very nice!  As an owner of four motorcycles, three of which have use for whitworth tools, I can really appreciate the value of that set.  My friend Hunter spotted at our swap meet, a set of four (which  I think is complete) Craftsman Whitworth offest box end wrenches. I think he paid $2 each!
Al
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman SAE Tap and Die Set
Post by: Yadda on September 13, 2022, 11:59:41 AM
Neat!  Something to add to my list of items to look for.
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman SAE Tap and Die Set
Post by: Jim C. on September 14, 2022, 04:41:22 AM
Hey Todd,

Way to go!!  I can only imagine what that Whitworth set must have cost you.  It’s only the second set I’ve ever seen.  How did you track it down?  What’s the back story?

Jim C.
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman SAE Tap and Die Set
Post by: Todd F. on September 19, 2022, 02:55:53 PM
Hey Jim
There's not much to it. It dropped on eBay as a "buy it now" for $650. Pretty sure it would have gone for over $1000 if it was an auction so I'm trying to convince myself that it was a good deal.

Todd F

PS I think my Metric set from that time period is as hard to find as the Whitworth.
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman SAE Tap and Die Set
Post by: Jim C. on September 19, 2022, 07:22:30 PM
Hey Todd,

Well, congratulations again!!  I know $650 is a lot of money, but I really think that’s the value of that set in that kind of condition.  I also think you’re right about its potential if it had gone down to bidding……$1,000+ probably wasn’t out of the question.  I think you did good.  You might never see that set again, and I totally agree with you regarding the metric set. It’s equally as difficult to find.  I’m still looking for that one.  I saw one a long while back but it was missing a few parts and the case was trashed.  I passed on it thinking I’d find another one.  Well, the only other one I’ve seen is your set. So, when you see it, buy it!!  You hit a home run my friend!! 

Jim C.
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman SAE Tap and Die Set
Post by: Todd F. on October 03, 2022, 10:52:40 PM
Here is another one to chew on for a while. I thought I posted it in this thread but I guess not. Might have thought you would get upset that I keep posting metric stuff in your SAE thread.
Anyway, I’ve had this one for a while and came up with all kinds of theories on exactly what it is. It’s a Craftsman, 28 piece, METRIC Tap and Die Set. OK so far. But the first thing you notice is the green case with yellow printing. I’ve seen green before on the Whitworth set but printing is white. The next thing you notice is the part number, 5209. There was also another strange thing. The taps and the dies do not say “Craftsman” on them. Just U.S.A. and they are hexagonal.  I thought maybe it was an Army contract or something.
 Now the original 5209 was the first Kromedge, 40 piece, SAE set with round dies. It was in the catalog from ’59 to ’62. It was rereleased in 1974 with a 4-40 in place of the 4-36. The 52091 set filled in the gap between those dates.
Now on the metric side of things, there was the 5500, 28 piece metric set with round dies, also from 1959 to ’62. Then for 10 years, NO METRIC. In the 1972 Craftsman tool catalog the 52095 set is introduced.
Now enter my green set. Remember it’s a 5209 but metric, not SAE. Hex dies, not round. And it’s green. Then, the other day, I was doing some light reading in the 1971 Tap and Die Handbook. You know, the red and white little booklets that come with the Craftsman tap and die sets. (There are 7 different printings as far as I know) And there it was, ***NEW***, 5209 metric set, 28 piece with the exact description of my green set. It doesn’t show up in the regular 71 tool catalog (there are no metric sets at all). And in the 72 catalog there is the “first” metric set in 10 years, the 52095. I guess the handbook was printed later in the year then the catalog. Maybe Sears decided they needed a metric set and went to their manufacturer and said “We need a metric set”. And they said “Sure, but it will take some time for us to stamp the Craftsman logo on them. We have these generic ones”. And Sears said “give me what you’ve got”. So for a few months in late 1971 there was a Craftsman metric set before the 52095. In a green case. Curiosity got me and I looked in the Sears ’71 Fall and Winter Big Book and there it was again.
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman SAE Tap and Die Set
Post by: Jim C. on October 04, 2022, 05:35:37 AM
Hey Todd,

VERY COOL set and nice write up!  That set is unusual and unique….. and probably scarce too.  Don’t worry about posting your Cman tap and die sets here. As a vintage Cman tool user and collector, I really appreciate seeing them. Maybe I can change the thread title.

Jim C.
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Tap and Die Sets
Post by: Jim C. on October 04, 2022, 05:38:18 AM
 Thread title changed.  :grin:

Jim C.
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Tap and Die Sets
Post by: Todd F. on October 04, 2022, 10:19:50 AM
Jim
That's great. I don't feel so bad posting to it now :)
Todd F
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Tap and Die Sets
Post by: Todd F. on October 04, 2022, 11:40:36 AM
Funny thing about the case for the metric sets. The case for the 1959 black metric set, the 1959 green Whitworth set and the 1971 green metric set all have the information molded into the lid for both metric and Whitworth tap drill sizes. They were all made from the same mold. When the 52095 metric set came out in '72, it's grey case had the tap drill information for SAE threads. Totally worthless information for the taps in the set. This "wrong" case was sold for years. The picture of the grey case below is from the 52095, metric set. I guess they had molded too many grey cases for the SAE sets (5209, 52091, 5200, 5213...) and decided to use them up. Or maybe they just screwed up.
Todd F
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Tap and Die Sets
Post by: Yadda on October 04, 2022, 04:33:04 PM
Great info.  Killer research!
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Tap and Die Sets
Post by: Jim C. on October 04, 2022, 07:43:05 PM
Hey Todd,

I’m really enjoying the thread and the information.  I can’t really add much to the knowledge base, but I’m certainly reading along.  If you have more, go ahead and post them here!  Good stuff!

Jim C.
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Tap and Die Sets
Post by: Todd F. on October 17, 2022, 01:08:03 PM
Here’s a rare find.  This is a Craftsman Power Tapper Threader. It is made to perform power tapping (and threading) with a hand power drill. I suppose you could also use it with a drill press. It drives and extracts the tap without having to reverse the drill. As most power drills back in the day did not have a reverse setting, this could come in quite handy. Older hand drills had no variable speed control either. This Tapper Threader has a 7:1 gear reduction in forward and 6:1 in reverse. Direction is changed by pushing or pulling on the drill and gripping the front or back ring on the tapper. The power drill continues run forward the entire time. It sounds a little cumbersome but I tried it out on some 1/4" aluminum plate and it only takes a few seconds to get the hang of it. You can even switch direction without ever releasing the trigger on the drill.
The set comes with 4 collets for #8, #10, 1/4" and 5/16” taps. It also comes with taps and dies sized 8-32, 10-24 and 1/4-20. There is also space for two drill bits but they are missing from my set.
I looked up the patent number and discovered it was issued in 1957. I found some similar items with screwdriver attachments in the Craftsman catalog but never found this exact item.  I later realized the front cover of the instruction booklet has a ZIP code in the address. The U.S. started using ZIP codes in mid-1963 so this thing was sold sometime after that.  The outside of the storage box has seen better days but I feel anything I might do to clean it up would probably make it worse, I opted to just leave it alone.

Thanks for reading
Todd F.
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Tap and Die Sets
Post by: Yadda on October 17, 2022, 06:37:17 PM
Very gizmotic!
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Tap and Die Sets
Post by: Todd F. on October 31, 2022, 07:39:54 PM
Here’s another good one for you. I bought this a few weeks ago and spent some time making it presentable. This is the Craftsman 59-piece, High Speed Steel, Class II, SAE, 9-52311, Tap and Die Set. “What makes this set so special?”, you might ask. It’s the Class II part.
Quick lesson for those who may not know. There are three classes of screw threads. They are….. you guessed it. Class 1, 2 and 3. Class 1 is common hardware like you get in your favorite big box store. Go to the bins and screw a big nut onto a big bolt and give it a shake. Chances are it will rattle a bit. This is because of the allowance between the internal and external thread. A class 1 thread by ASME or ISO standards allows this much “play” between the nut and bolt. This is fine for bolting the front bumper on your old Chevy. There is nothing wrong with it. However, you might not want to use something like that on your connecting rod bolts in your engine. That’s where class 2 hardware comes in. The tolerances for the internal and external thread are much tighter. There is a narrow range for the minimum and maximum pitch diameter of the threads. All aircraft hardware is class 2 as well as most engine hardware. The down side is cost. Class 2 hardware is much more expensive manufacture and hold within the tight tolerances. There is also a class 3. This would be used for something like the screw inside your micrometer. The allowance between the internal and external Class 3 thread is zero. 
All Tap and die sets sold by Craftsman cut class 1 threads with the exception of this 52311 and the metric 52001. The 52311 SAE set was introduced in 1974 and the 52001 metric set came out a year later in 1975. Both appeared continuously in the Craftsman catalogs until 2008. These are by far the longest running tap and die sets Craftsman has sold. These sets blasted right through the end of the Kromedge era in 1986 and kept on going.  Despite the longevity of these sets, they are some of the hardest to find. There are two reasons for this.  The first is price. You can see on the 1974 catalog page posted below, when the 52311 was introduced, the price was $199 while the price of the exact same 59-piece Kromedge, class 1 set was $84.99. If you didn’t need anything bigger than 1/2 inch, you could get the 5201 set for $42. Bottom line is, they probably didn’t fly off the selves. The other thing that makes them hard to find (in good condition) is that these were bought by people who were going to use the crap out of them. This is only the second set I have seen. The first one was in really bad shape and I passed on it. This one was also in poor shape when I got it. Five of the taps and one of the dies were missing and 3 more of the taps were not original Craftsman. Since these were the only class 2 HSS sets Craftsman has ever sold and single pieces were never sold in the catalog or the stores, replacement pieces are non-existent. I replaced the missing taps with similar class 2 HSS taps that match pretty close. I couldn’t find a class 2 die so I used a Craftsman Kromedge die and blackened the edge to match. See if you can spot which one.

Thanks for reading
Todd F.

Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Tap and Die Sets
Post by: Jim C. on October 31, 2022, 09:35:32 PM
Wow!  That’s a cool set, Todd!  I didn’t know that set even existed. Nice find!

Jim C.
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Tap and Die Sets
Post by: Yadda on November 01, 2022, 05:44:22 PM
Neat!
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Tap and Die Sets
Post by: Todd F. on November 03, 2022, 03:23:26 PM
Hey Jim
I was looking at the pictures of your metric “Barn Find” in Reply #27 and was wondering if it might be a 9-52096 from 1974 – 1985. The cases for both sets are identical except for the plastic label. (Which yours is missing) The 52096 has Kromedge taps and dies and the 52373 has the carbon steel pieces. The best way to tell for sure is to look at the part numbers on the individual taps and dies. If the part number starts with 520--, then they are Kromedge and your set is a 52096, the numbers start with 528—or 529—then you have the 52373 set. The tap/reamer wrenches look like the newer style but I’m not sure when they switched to those. You can never tell by the catalog pictures since they are usually a few years behind the times.
Take care
Todd F
The picture is of my 52096. It's hard to see the P/N.
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Tap and Die Sets
Post by: Jim C. on November 03, 2022, 08:12:32 PM
Hey Todd,

Thanks for taking a second look at my metric set.  Like I said in my original write up, it’s a 9-52373 set.  But just to make sure, I checked it again.  You’re correct about the tool part numbers.  All the taps and dies either start with part number 528 or 529.  I’m still missing the 18mm x 1.50 tap and die. 

Jim C.
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Tap and Die Sets
Post by: Bill Houghton on November 07, 2022, 04:56:00 PM
Congrats, Todd.  Now that you have the Whitworth set, you can work on your old British cars/motorcycles - or, if you don't already have one, you can add that to your quest list.  An old AJS/Matchless/Velocette/Royal Enfield or Wolseley/Standard/Humber/Jowett will provide hours of entertainment, including the occasional hours of riding/driving fun!
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman SAE Tap and Die Set
Post by: Uncle Buck on September 23, 2023, 10:18:48 PM
Hey Jim or anyone else.
I have what is probably a dumb question. Almost all of my Craftsman taps and dies have the letters "VM" stamped on them. I am assuming this is some kind of forge marking. Does anyone know what this means?
Thanks
Todd F.
Someone might have already answered this question,  but the VM marking means those were made by the Vermont American company. No clue if they are still in business,  but in the 1970's the brand was heavily represented in chain hdw stores like Ace and True Value. Taps and dies and drill bits was the primary products bearing their name that I recall.
Title: Re: Sears/Craftsman Tap and Die Sets
Post by: Uncle Buck on September 23, 2023, 10:27:55 PM
Here’s another good one for you. I bought this a few weeks ago and spent some time making it presentable. This is the Craftsman 59-piece, High Speed Steel, Class II, SAE, 9-52311, Tap and Die Set. “What makes this set so special?”, you might ask. It’s the Class II part.
Quick lesson for those who may not know. There are three classes of screw threads. They are….. you guessed it. Class 1, 2 and 3. Class 1 is common hardware like you get in your favorite big box store. Go to the bins and screw a big nut onto a big bolt and give it a shake. Chances are it will rattle a bit. This is because of the allowance between the internal and external thread. A class 1 thread by ASME or ISO standards allows this much “play” between the nut and bolt. This is fine for bolting the front bumper on your old Chevy. There is nothing wrong with it. However, you might not want to use something like that on your connecting rod bolts in your engine. That’s where class 2 hardware comes in. The tolerances for the internal and external thread are much tighter. There is a narrow range for the minimum and maximum pitch diameter of the threads. All aircraft hardware is class 2 as well as most engine hardware. The down side is cost. Class 2 hardware is much more expensive manufacture and hold within the tight tolerances. There is also a class 3. This would be used for something like the screw inside your micrometer. The allowance between the internal and external Class 3 thread is zero. 
All Tap and die sets sold by Craftsman cut class 1 threads with the exception of this 52311 and the metric 52001. The 52311 SAE set was introduced in 1974 and the 52001 metric set came out a year later in 1975. Both appeared continuously in the Craftsman catalogs until 2008. These are by far the longest running tap and die sets Craftsman has sold. These sets blasted right through the end of the Kromedge era in 1986 and kept on going.  Despite the longevity of these sets, they are some of the hardest to find. There are two reasons for this.  The first is price. You can see on the 1974 catalog page posted below, when the 52311 was introduced, the price was $199 while the price of the exact same 59-piece Kromedge, class 1 set was $84.99. If you didn’t need anything bigger than 1/2 inch, you could get the 5201 set for $42. Bottom line is, they probably didn’t fly off the selves. The other thing that makes them hard to find (in good condition) is that these were bought by people who were going to use the crap out of them. This is only the second set I have seen. The first one was in really bad shape and I passed on it. This one was also in poor shape when I got it. Five of the taps and one of the dies were missing and 3 more of the taps were not original Craftsman. Since these were the only class 2 HSS sets Craftsman has ever sold and single pieces were never sold in the catalog or the stores, replacement pieces are non-existent. I replaced the missing taps with similar class 2 HSS taps that match pretty close. I couldn’t find a class 2 die so I used a Craftsman Kromedge die and blackened the edge to match. See if you can spot which one.

Thanks for reading
Todd F.

Indeed! The Craftsman HSS tap and die sets were always the holy grail of Craftsman tap and die sets! Those sets were available by catalog order only as stated next to their picture in the tool catalogs (The catalog ad shown does not state that, but later in the 1970's it did.). Also, as already stated they cost far more than the CS sets. I have never seen a set in the wild. Wow, what a find there!