Tool Talk
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: 1930 on January 06, 2013, 07:51:58 AM
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I know alot of you guys know European cars, I know next to nothing, without making this a long story will one of you PLEASE identify this wiper motor set-up on this guys album in post # 25 second page and tell me what year vehicle this guy pulled this assy from. He says 60 and 70s, that leaves alot to the imagination and its like pulling teeth trying to get a straight answer SOMETIMES on this Ford forum. Thanks.........If you cannot positively identify it than please say so and let me know what clues you might have toward its identification. Thank-you very much
http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1214317-electric-wiper-2.html
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Nada clue....
Evil cable drive ;P
As an aside tho, resistor doesn't work because it's a series wound motor, but, a 6V convertor of the type made for radios in 6V cars converted to 12V will work....(it has regulated voltage output)
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If you read what he wrote, it would seem that it is from 60's/70's Mini Cooper or Jag.
"Junkyard Tech cable driven wipers from 60s/70s Brit cars (minis, Jags etc)"
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If it's from a Jag, it's worth more than the truck, some of those motors cost $800 rebuilt ;P
Photo of Lucal Evil cable drive wiper system,,,,
http://www.jag-lovers.org/xj-s/book/AckerWiperSubstitution.html
Note that the article is about getting rid of the dammed thing ;P
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If you read what he wrote, it would seem that it is from 60's/70's Mini Cooper or Jag.
"Junkyard Tech cable driven wipers from 60s/70s Brit cars (minis, Jags etc)"
Yes I read that but there is a twenty year leap there and I am assuming that many possible models
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Nada clue....
Evil cable drive ;P
As an aside tho, resistor doesn't work because it's a series wound motor, but, a 6V convertor of the type made for radios in 6V cars converted to 12V will work....(it has regulated voltage output)
I need to talk about this here I guess, maybe you truly do have all the answers, some of the B.S I am getting on different forums is crazy
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Well, it depends what forum you are on, the ford-truck forum seems to be mostly populated with folks playing with reasonably late model stuff. The old stuff, particularly when you go back to the 6 volt era, is a whole totally different world....
The 1950's were good...they were also half a century ago ;P
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Well, it depends what forum you are on, the ford-truck forum seems to be mostly populated with folks playing with reasonably late model stuff. The old stuff, particularly when you go back to the 6 volt era, is a whole totally different world....
The 1950's were good...they were also half a century ago ;P
You have a memory like and elephant, ....just kidding, I will run some stuff by you later and if you know than great, if you are un-sure than thanks for trying.
I need to get back out there though now
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Here is my post on another forum, I would like to discuss it here.........Please comment
I am having trouble finding information I can rely on when it comes to the wiper motor in my 52 truck. There are some great guys that know electrical very well on the mid eighties stuff ( which is where alot of my electrical components come from ) but when it comes to the earlier stuff they are not so knowledgeable and some of the guys that deal more with the earlier stuff are just throwing things out and from what I found really are not helping because they have no real world experience with what I am dealing with.
I am tired of buying something that someone recommends just cause they recommended it and then I am disappointed with how it works.
I would like to understand what I need and why I need it, here is what I have....
(http://i675.photobucket.com/albums/vv117/jhason2/Picture259_zpsd2ee1199.jpg)
(http://i675.photobucket.com/albums/vv117/jhason2/Picture258_zps9c06fb06.jpg)
This is the stock wiper assy from my 52 truck, it is 6 volt, the truck only has 23.000 miles on it and I am certain that this part is not worn out/damaged in any way.
New 12 volt conversions not only need modifications and alot of aggravation to install but hinge on what I consider crap parts unlike this well made unit that fits perfectly within my truck. Also the new units are ridiculous in cost.
Years ago I put in this
(http://i675.photobucket.com/albums/vv117/jhason2/Picture194_zps2ef6cde1.jpg)
voltage reducer in line to make this wiper motor work at someones recommendation and it does work but this statement best describes the problem with this voltage reducer, this statement was made for reducers in general I guess and was not pinpointing the reducer I have used since this poster did not know at the time what I was using..........I can tell you for sure the resistor for the wiper motor does not work well. The resistor drops the voltage down, but the amount of drop depends on the current flow. On a blower motor it would probably work, but on the wiper motor, with a dry windshield, the motor has a lot of drag on it, so it draws a lot of current through the resistor, so the voltage has a large drop, and the motor barely moves the wipers. When the windshield is wet, there is less drag, so there is less current flowing to the motor, so there is less voltage drop, so your wipers are whipping back and forth too fast. It's not a good thing. ................
This is exactly what I have experienced with this resistor.
I have read over and over about a ceramic resistor that used to be avail made my Vol-Ta-Drop that would have supposedly worked but evidently these are no longer made however ceramic resistors are still being made but I just dont want to buy the first one that the guy recommends when I call on Mon just because he is over there, I am over here and he dosent have to deal with the headaches when it does not work like I think it should.
I have read that these wiper motors originally used on 4-4.5 amps max but this was stated by someone that has led me astray a couple of times now and I am done relying on his in-put so this may or may not be correct.
I would like this 6 volt electric wiper motor assy to operate just like it did when new when the truck was 6 volts. I now have 12 volts and do not want to damage this motor in any way because they are un-obtainable. Is this possible?
Thanks for any help with this!
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Nada clue....
Evil cable drive ;P
As an aside tho, resistor doesn't work because it's a series wound motor, but, a 6V convertor of the type made for radios in 6V cars converted to 12V will work....(it has regulated voltage output)
Rusty if you could expand on this and help me to understand better what it is I should be understanding I would appreciate that. I want to know what exactly I need to find and get it.......I would above all else prefer to pay someone to re-wind or do whatever it takes to convert this motor to 12 volt if that is even possible.
I know this can get spendy but I would rather pay someone ( guessing ) 200 dollars to re-wind my original well built motor than buy the crap that is avail aftermarket. Thanks
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I know this may sound simplistic but I have to ask. Have you tried going to an auto parts store and asking for a 12vdc to 6vdc regulator?
Of course the chances of finding anyone knowledgeable is going to be kind of iffy but might be worth a try.
Try the link below, it may be more help than my above comments.
http://www.powerstream.com/dc-dcz0603.htm
Mike
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I had a 3 page reply to this, but the (*&^*&^ forum ate it :(
So, for tonight , I will just leave you 2 links to ponder
http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Runtz-12-Volt-to-6-Volt-Reducers,2374.html
http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Voltage-Reducer-for-Fans-and-Motors,2375.html
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Rusty,
I've had that forum eating monster get some of my posts also. When I remember, I do the long ones in Wordpad and then copy and paste them here. Helps a bunch.
Mike
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I had a 3 page reply to this, but the (*&^*&^ forum ate it :(
So, for tonight , I will just leave you 2 links to ponder
http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Runtz-12-Volt-to-6-Volt-Reducers,2374.html
http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Voltage-Reducer-for-Fans-and-Motors,2375.html
Hi Rusty, Runtz reducers will not work for this, I have tried these, no better than the reducer I have shown above and the ceramic deal will not carry the amps without glowing hot, maybe a bigger one would work but inconsistent flow still.
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I know this may sound simplistic but I have to ask. Have you tried going to an auto parts store and asking for a 12vdc to 6vdc regulator?
Of course the chances of finding anyone knowledgeable is going to be kind of iffy but might be worth a try.
Try the link below, it may be more help than my above comments.
http://www.powerstream.com/dc-dcz0603.htm
Mike
This was suggested on another forum just this past nite.......... The amount of voltage dropped by a dropping resistor varies in proportion to the amount of current passing through it. This applies to all resistors, whether they are aluminum, ceramic, or anything else. Voltage dropping resistors are only suitable for heater blower motors, and lights.
What I recommend is an electronic voltage reducer. It's a transistor based device that senses and reacts to varying current loads to keep it's output voltage a steady 6 volts.
I have had extremely good luck with the Ron Francis VR-4 electronic voltage reducer. it's rated for up to 15 amps continuous..........................
Another poster said...........You need the electronic converter.
Electric motors all have the characteristic of drawing more current under a heavier load, and the resistor drops the voltage even more under the load, so the wiper motor and dropping resistor are actually "fighting" each other. ........................
I left him with Rustys response and asked the question ..............I believe that the resistor doesn't work because it's a series wound motor, but, a 6V convertor of the type made for radios in 6V cars converted to 12V will work....(it has regulated voltage output)
Is this what might be considered a converter that you show above ? .......................
And he responded ..................I suppose the terms voltage reducer and converter can be used interchangeably, if that's what you're asking. I was careful to say 'electronic voltage reducer' because most of what you find for sale listed as a '12v to 6v converter' is nothing more than a resistor, and you know how well they work.
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>ceramic deal will not carry the amps without glowing hot,
That is how they work. They are really varistors, the resistance increases with temperature, so as the current increases, they get hotter, the resistance increases, and the current goes down. They are better than a lpain resistor, but they do not really regulate, so yes, the motor speed will drift still...
>most of what you find for sale listed as a '12v to 6v converter' is nothing more than a resistor,
This is why I wouldn't walk into an auto parts store and ask for one ;P
>voltage reducer and converter can be used interchangeably,
The correct term is really voltage regulator, but the automotive folks don't seem to like that term. The efficient ones are switching power supplies, so they are also 'convertors', that is not a reversible equivilance tho ;P
The runtz (blue) one should be along the right idea, but it's probably too small for that motor.
15 amps is kinda overkill, and the things are not cheap, that is why I was also going to ask if you were running anything else 6volt (gas guage, radio, etc...)
I was also going to go look in the 55 dodge and see what we had put in that, then I remembered we left it at 6volts (duh)
The reason that it is hard to find inbetween sizes is the old 6V radios were all vacuum tube and draw tons of current...
>Ron Francis VR-4 electronic voltage reducer
Inefficient, not in a very nice package,and a bit $$, but other than that, it is pretty much what I had in mind....
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Did you try the 12/6V battery? tap off 6V or 12V http://www.antiqueautobattery.com/accessories.html
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Did you try the 12/6V battery? tap off 6V or 12V http://www.antiqueautobattery.com/accessories.html
Yes I did and the batteries are 200 plus and will last maybe a few years if taken care of, not what I thought would be ideal for my situation, thanks though
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>ceramic deal will not carry the amps without glowing hot,
That is how they work. They are really varistors, the resistance increases with temperature, so as the current increases, they get hotter, the resistance increases, and the current goes down. They are better than a lpain resistor, but they do not really regulate, so yes, the motor speed will drift still...
>most of what you find for sale listed as a '12v to 6v converter' is nothing more than a resistor,
This is why I wouldn't walk into an auto parts store and ask for one ;P
>voltage reducer and converter can be used interchangeably,
The correct term is really voltage regulator, but the automotive folks don't seem to like that term. The efficient ones are switching power supplies, so they are also 'convertors', that is not a reversible equivilance tho ;P
The runtz (blue) one should be along the right idea, but it's probably too small for that motor.
15 amps is kinda overkill, and the things are not cheap, that is why I was also going to ask if you were running anything else 6volt (gas guage, radio, etc...)
I was also going to go look in the 55 dodge and see what we had put in that, then I remembered we left it at 6volts (duh)
The reason that it is hard to find inbetween sizes is the old 6V radios were all vacuum tube and draw tons of current...
>Ron Francis VR-4 electronic voltage reducer
Inefficient, not in a very nice package,and a bit $$, but other than that, it is pretty much what I had in mind....
Im not sure what you mean by inefficient or not in a very nice package but I will agree with pricey but considering the no name brands that I looked at that would not carry nearly the 15 amps and were maybe at most 25 dollars savings I think that I prob. made the right choice.
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Inefficient because it will probably waste about 25 watts of power while running, (the other half of the 12 volts that is not going to the motor turns into heat) , but, you waste more leaving the headlights on during the day I suppose -P
(It is going to be warm while operating tho, select a place where the heat can escape when mounting it)
It would have been nice if they had put it in a box or something, instead of just a bare heat sink, be sure to mount it inside where it will stay dry......
PS: Is the heater fan motor 6v also?
(Or is this a summer only truck?)
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I know alot of you guys know European cars, I know next to nothing, without making this a long story will one of you PLEASE identify this wiper motor set-up on this guys album in post # 25 second page and tell me what year vehicle this guy pulled this assy from.
1962-68 MGB.
In 1969 they converted to a three wiper system.
...Rob
1965 MGB
1974 TR6
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Inefficient because it will probably waste about 25 watts of power while running, (the other half of the 12 volts that is not going to the motor turns into heat) , but, you waste more leaving the headlights on during the day I suppose -P
(It is going to be warm while operating tho, select a place where the heat can escape when mounting it)
It would have been nice if they had put it in a box or something, instead of just a bare heat sink, be sure to mount it inside where it will stay dry......
PS: Is the heater fan motor 6v also?
(Or is this a summer only truck?)
Thanks now I am clear and makes sense to me, dont get me started on the prefectly fine 6 volt wiper motor I used to have!! No, only this wiper will be operating on 6 volt within my truck
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I know alot of you guys know European cars, I know next to nothing, without making this a long story will one of you PLEASE identify this wiper motor set-up on this guys album in post # 25 second page and tell me what year vehicle this guy pulled this assy from.
1962-68 MGB.
In 1969 they converted to a three wiper system.
...Rob
1965 MGB
1974 TR6
Ever heard the phrase a day late and a dollar short, thanks though for the effort
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I know alot of you guys know European cars, I know next to nothing, without making this a long story will one of you PLEASE identify this wiper motor set-up on this guys album in post # 25 second page and tell me what year vehicle this guy pulled this assy from.
1962-68 MGB.
In 1969 they converted to a three wiper system.
...Rob
1965 MGB
1974 TR6
Ever heard the phrase a day late and a dollar short, thanks though for the effort
WTF ????????
Am I missing where somebody answered the original question?
Rob
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No one answered it, it just has become moot, as 1930 is going back to the original motor, so it doesn't really matter what that one is anymore...
However I am glad you answered it, I didn't know MG's used those silly things too...
Are cable drive wiper systems only a brittish thing?
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No one answered it, it just has become moot, as 1930 is going back to the original motor, so it doesn't really matter what that one is anymore...
However I am glad you answered it, I didn't know MG's used those silly things too...
Are cable drive wiper systems only a brittish thing?
Thanks! I was confused about what happened.....
Not sure about the damned silly mechanism being British only....I can't remember what the setup looks like in my TR6 but I had just installed the wiper mechanism in my MGB a week or so ago. How about that for a coincidence?
...Rob