J.A. House round belt pliers

[Plyerman]

I had no idea what this tool was for until I (finally!) found the Datamp page about it. LINK According to the patent, it is a combination tool for cutting round sewing machine belts and then punching and splicing them back together. It was invented by a Mr. J.A. House and was manufactured by the Lintner & Sporborg company of Gloversville, New York. Patent is from 1894.











The various plier jaws are quite intricate and there are some impressive machined features to them. These pliers must have been very expensive to produce.





On one side they are stamped DROP FORGED FROM BAR STEEL. Stamping on the other side is indistinct. I can make out a portion of two words:

W I ____???

SE___???

and part of the word GLOVERSVILLE, but nothing else. Anybody else have a set of these that the stamping is more legible on?

[Papaw]

 Gizmosity abounds!

[rusty]

Weird that datamp has that patent and not the speed indicator patents that the company is more known for ;P (508686)  https://www.mjdtools.com/ToolItem.php?item=223879&list=1194

Very neat pliers, only other round belt pliers I have come across are the Bernards, and are just for putting in a hole , nothing fancy like these :)

>W I ____???

Lintner's first name was William...(?)

[Aunt Phil]

Weird that datamp has that patent and not the speed indicator patents that the company is more known for ;P (508686)  https://www.mjdtools.com/ToolItem.php?item=223879&list=1194

Very neat pliers, only other round belt pliers I have come across are the Bernards, and are just for putting in a hole , nothing fancy like these :)

>W I ____???

Lintner's first name was William...(?)

Not all that disassociated from a company making speed and probably position indicators.
Well into the 70s there was a very beloved indicator system that employed miles of a ringed cable traveling through a steel or copper tube system.
It was very popular aboard ships for door & hatch position indication on the bridge.

[mvwcnews]

As the DATAMP steward responsible for that entry, I can tell you it is based on an example of the pliers in an MJD sale, and not from any personal knowledge of the pliers or the company that produced it.
Are you saying it could also be used for manipulating "cables" made of small strands, splice connectors for the same, etc?  Where would one find documentation to educate this Nebraska farm kid whose only "nautical" experience is riding the car ferry across Lake Michigan from Manitowoc Wisconsin to Ludington Michigan.

[Aunt Phil]

As the DATAMP steward responsible for that entry, I can tell you it is based on an example of the pliers in an MJD sale, and not from any personal knowledge of the pliers or the company that produced it.
Are you saying it could also be used for manipulating "cables" made of small strands, splice connectors for the same, etc?  Where would one find documentation to educate this Nebraska farm kid whose only "nautical" experience is riding the car ferry across Lake Michigan from Manitowoc Wisconsin to Ludington Michigan.

I'm saying before the marvelous enlightened age of DIGITAL everything the world was full of remote indicators driven by mechanical systems ranging from what is commonly called sewing machine belting to metal cable with rings every quarter inch that indexed sender to display.  At the moment the nomenclature for the cable system escapes me, but I do recall it was used on every Walz & Krenzer watertight door & hatch made in the 60s & 70s.  I also remember the cable came on a 2500 foot spool that worked perfectly, UNLESS, the damn spool got dropped.

[Plyerman]

Part of the fun of researching tools like this is all the other random information I learn along the way. For instance, according to Wikipedia, the town of "Gloversville, in Fulton County, New York, was once the hub of America's glovemaking industry with over two hundred manufacturers in Gloversville and the adjacent city of Johnstown"

I didn't know that. Makes me wonder if they changed the name of the town to suit it's major industry, or if the town name came first and then all those glove makers moved there because the name sounded appropriate?(I bet I know the answer to that question)


Anyhow, with all those leather-sewing-machines around, it makes sense that these belt pliers would be produced locally. According to the patent text, the tool is
"particularly adapted to be used in connec
tion with sewing machines, and other appara
tus in which round or cord-belts are used and
which as they become stretched from use,
have to be disconnected at their ends,apiece
cut off, and then punched for reconnection."

[Lostmind]

Good job of detective work. No way would I be able to guess the purpose of that tool.

[Aunt Phil]

Gloversville probably didn't have a name or official village status until the Post Office came along.  It was just a convenient wide spot in the road in an area where hemlock trees abounded making it a good area for the leather industry, following on the tanning trade.
Most original glove sewing was piece work done at home by women for additional income.

The industrial leather sewing machine in a factory setting came along later in history. 

Leather crafts and products were quite common in Northern NY in the 19th Century.  Rochester had over 150 shoe factories in 1860, and the machine that made wood shoe pegs was invented in Rochester, which increased production considerably.  Most of the factories were small specialized shops that performed one or two of the necessary functions, and a lot of the work was done in homes by women.

You need to be careful looking at history to not get confused by trying to apply 2014 thinking to the 1850 time period.

[scottg]

Something tells me there were special clips or connectors that were used along with this tool.
 As I am seeing it I couldn't use them on treadle sewing machine belts, something I have experience with.

  The Bernard belt pliers will accurately cut off, then center punch the hole for the staple (if you think this is nothing, please try it) and finally draw up said staple.
  These are all jobs you can do "the hard way" but the pliers are dynamite.
 
  The pliers shown don't have anything to punch a hole with at all.
In fact they have 4 stations I can't figure out what they do?
    yours Scott

[rusty]

>Are you saying it could also be used for manipulating "cables"
no,no, just that searching the company name in datamp gives me only the plier patent. Searching say google books for the company name instantly gave me patent hints that they made speed indicators, which are patented, but not connected to the company name in datamp (looking at it more, the assignments for the company's earlier patents seem to be assigned to the principals rather than the company by name)

[Plyerman]

I'm really enjoying the discussion here fellas, thanks! I've seen pictures of those Bernard pliers but never really understood what they were for. It makes more sense now. And being of inexpensive stamped metal construction, I can imagine that the Bernard version was a lot cheaper to produce than this fully machined plier.

As regards punches and cutters, they are all there. Or at least, they used to be. The punches are pretty well worn down to nubs, as you can see:




One station has a replaceable cutter blade. The blade is probably supposed to be longer, and pass into the slot opposite of it




The second station has a 3/8" hole through the end plate, and a replaceable punch. The punch is worn to a nub.




the station between the plier jaws has a 1/4" hole, and also a punch. This punch is worn down too.



By the way, I'm saying that the punches and the blade are "replaceable" but I don't really know how to do that. Looks like they are held in place with some sort of a small tapered collet/wedge affair? (see end view below)

[Chillylulu]

My son-in-law is from Gloversville. Very green. I went there 5 years ago to move my daughter and him back to Denver.  Its a nice area, older, about 30 miles or so from the state capitol in Albany. It is close to Adirondack State Park (but I guess almost everything in NE New York is close to that huge park.

Chilly

[scottg]

I'll bet these were really great belt pliers in their day!
 Still great now but if they were restored? What a joy they would be!!

 Tell you a treadle sewing machine story.
I live at the end of the earth. Microscopic town.
Well, in the late 60's and 70's there was a whole population of hippies living outside town on old, mostly abandoned homesteads.  Being miles from town, the likelihood of bringing in electricity was non existent.
  So everyone used kerosene lamps and wood stoves for heating and cooking. Gravity fed spring water.  Plus treadle sewing machines.
   Same as if it was 1909 instead of 1972. 
(Except we had chainsaws and rototillers instead of misery whips and horses.  I had a propane hot water heater and refrigerator, but I had to haul the large propane bottle myself.)
   
  Well all the girls got into sewing and of course treadle machines were mandatory.
 At one time there was actually a sewing and vacuum business in town. But George, the owner, had recently retired.   I hunted him down and knocked on his door.
   He didn't have any old treadle parts left, but instead he gave me a Brewer sewing supply catalog.  Brewer was still old school then. They would not sell to the general public, you had to be a dealer. And the only real way to become a dealer was to be recommended by an already established dealer.
 So George gave me the catalog and told them to sell to me. Brewer had endless old stock parts for really old machines still on the shelf.

  My wouldn't-be-my-legal-wife-for-another-30-years, but my "old lady" all that time had a Singer that needed work. 
I ordered parts and fixed it up. Next a neighbor had problems with an ancient one, so I ordered more parts.
 Pretty soon I was repairing all the girl's machines when they needed it. Hippie chicks can do some damage to a sewing machine especially when they are just starting out.

  Years passed and eventually we moved into town. Town was almost as "country" as the remote cabins anyway.
 Well the remaining hippie chicks and a few town girls still needed work. So I began to order parts for electric machines too.
 Guess what? Brewer wouldn't send them!
 Every time I ordered parts for an electric machine, they would think I had made a mistake and cheerfully substituted treadle parts. It took me 3 orders to get it straightened out.
 
 


       Goin' up the country, Baby don't you wanna go?
    yours Scott

[Plyerman]

Well it's no wonder you didn't get married for 30 years - with all those women in desperate need of parts and service you probably had your hands full!

Heh-heh, cute story