Author Topic: My new 300 lb baby  (Read 16375 times)

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Offline Papaw

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Re: My new 300 lb baby
« Reply #45 on: December 05, 2015, 05:19:04 PM »
Good natured fun-poking aside, each has his own level of knowledge and no one should try to bully another over matters such as this.
I think this has gone far enough.
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Offline Aunt Phil

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Re: My new 300 lb baby
« Reply #46 on: December 06, 2015, 03:43:32 PM »
I want to know if Twilight has put a good beating on that chunk of iron yet.
Timing has a lot to do with the outcome of a rain dance!

Offline Chillylulu

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Re: My new 300 lb baby
« Reply #47 on: December 07, 2015, 11:31:08 AM »
Your grinding job was first rate.

Now, a long winded report on heat of organic materials:

For the record, almost all organic material burns within a narrow temperature range. Lpg gas, wood, and coal will all get about as hot as each other and all will burn at 2000ºf snd hotter.  Burn temperatures are not ignition temperatures, I.E., natural gas has a much lower ignition temperature than wood.

This goes against our own experience, it would seem, but it is true and is a fact that I live with as a fire protection engineer.  Single family homes flash over at temperatures over 2000ºf, often within minutes of ignition. A single christmas tree can cause a 2400º flash in minutes.

For wood, moisture needs to be removed, so we see it burn slower (at first). In a large fire moisture is removed quicker. The heat is greatest within the fire and dissipates quickly at the flame tips and as the smoke plume rises.

The amount of available oxygen is a big factor, as is enclosure configuration.  Smiths are accutely aware of the effect of blower usage on heat output, and as every 12 year old boy scout learns when starting fires, added air can heat things up quickly. Reflected heat adds to the heat of a fire, in a bonfire there wouldn't be much reflected heat

Wood fires have been used for temperatures over 2000ºf in ceramic kilns for a long time.

Speaking of kilns (I have 6, 3 that I use regularly.)  This would be one of the rare times that I would disagree with Aunt Phil (I still do this carefully and never married to my thoughts completely, like a cub questioning a journeyman)  Many modern kilns are very efficent, with little heat loss.  My biggest is 41" wide x 25.5" x 13.5" deep.  It has a computer controller and you control the rate of temperature rise/fall, how long to stay at a certain temperature, etc. It holds heat so well that I have to vent it to cool slowly even. I think our power is moderately priced here in Colorado.  Anyway, running it through a heating to melting / fusing phase then down through a 6 or 8 hour annealing phase down to 150ºf costs very little (a few bucks at most.)

I've enjoyed this thread,  I think I've learned from many of you. I saw valid points in all posts, and from an outsiders perspective it seems like there is more than one way to skin this cat.

I have questions, I understand that hardening an anvil face is not needed after hard facing,  but if you did heat up an anvil and quench it - Would you need to anneal to relieve stress?  I would guess that an anvil, like one that was in a fire (even if it cooled without quenching) could be hardened too much, is that correct? Would such an anvil be unsafe or subject to hardened parts flying off when struck?
Does the sheer mass of a big anvil offer some level of safety?

My anvil is nicely sized for me, it is a whopping 35 lbs.  It is a Cliff Carroll model made right here in Colorado. I have it on an anvil stand that cost more than my anvil. I like the stand much better than the stump setup I had before. I think that these anvils are mostly for farriers. I don't know its construction,  and their website doesn't answer that question.

I'm taking a picture of my set up. I'm adding some of my stakes (they are equally small scaled as the rest of my beating kit.) I dont use a forge - just an annealing pan or a fire brick box for bigger stuff. 

Don't you smiths make fun of my rig, and any aspersions as to my strength would be ridiculous if you saw me. 

When I want to work steel or iron I do that at my in-laws. When it comes to toys, his shop is the bomb.  I gave him his anvil, it is welded to a section of I-beam.  I saved it from the trash in 1984. It was a shop warming present for when he had a 40x60 ft metal building put in behind his house (hobby shop and hot rod storage.)

Looking forward to opinions of Twilite, Aunty, Keykeeper and others.

 Chilly


« Last Edit: December 07, 2015, 11:36:35 AM by Chillylulu »

Offline Chillylulu

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Re: My new 300 lb baby
« Reply #48 on: December 07, 2015, 12:44:08 PM »
My huge anvil:

I included a goldsmiths hammer, the face is less thann1/4" across. Don't ftet for me, the fancy handle helps keep me from getting wore out.

Some of my stakes:


A single stake in a stake holder that I never use:


I hope this makes all you blacksmiths feel superior  :smiley:

Chilly

 

Offline Aunt Phil

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Re: My new 300 lb baby
« Reply #49 on: December 07, 2015, 02:18:48 PM »
Sheesh Chilly. you're a fitter with CAD out the wazoo, and you bought that cute little anvil stand?  Whutthehell, did the guys take all the scraps to the junkyard?  Was there a problem jigging the legs up?

What's with the tinknockers stakes in the picture?

BTW, we're now into CAFS systems, you best study up on bubbles.  They even have bubble machines in Popo cars now.
I'll make it easy for you.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compressed_air_foam_system

I gotta try this idea out with an old water can.  If that proves out I'm going for a 100 gal model.

Timing has a lot to do with the outcome of a rain dance!

Offline Chillylulu

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Re: My new 300 lb baby
« Reply #50 on: December 07, 2015, 07:42:37 PM »
Those stakes are too small for tin knockers, Phil.  They are 2-3" long. The hole in the stake holder is about 1/4" square.

Nothing new about foam - we install it all over the place, but mostly in aircraft hangars (overhead, columns, and sprayed up underwing with monitors.) Just cut up a bar of soap real fine and put the powder in that water can.  You may have invented a new extinguisher.

I don't make big things. Maybe I would if silver and gold were as cheap as steel.

Chilly

Offline Aunt Phil

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Re: My new 300 lb baby
« Reply #51 on: December 07, 2015, 08:54:32 PM »
OK, sop ship me a couple 5 gallon pails of foam concentrate so I can play.

If my idea is right, I should be able to build a HUGE pile of foam on a cold night and really confuse people driving by.

Secondly, why is it called an aircraft hanger?  I've been inside many of them and have yet to see any aircraft hanging in there.

Third, I don't think you should be posting those tools in a blacksmithing section.  Technically blacksmithing is working with iron, and your goodies are for working bright metal, therefore Pawpaw needs to start a different section for Brightsmithing or goldsmithing or silversmithing.

Shaving a bar of soap might be against some law in NY, seems like everything is.
Timing has a lot to do with the outcome of a rain dance!

Offline keykeeper

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Re: My new 300 lb baby
« Reply #52 on: January 06, 2016, 05:34:55 PM »
Good natured fun-poking aside, each has his own level of knowledge and no one should try to bully another over matters such as this.
I think this has gone far enough.

I don't know what was said, as I don't check in here much, Papaw. What ever it was, I must have struck a nerve with someone.

I will say that I apologize, if I offended Twilight. I remember when he came on the scene, and I have tried in the past to pass on good info to him.

As for anyone else that has issue with what I said, or questions why I said it, a PM before bashing me in an open forum would have spoken volumes as to your character.

I used to love coming to this forum, and found it refreshing to try and help others.

Now, not so much anymore, due to circumstances like this.

I wish you all the best, I'll just lurk from now on.

-Aaron C.

My vintage tool Want list:
Wards Master Quality 1/2" drive sockets (Need size 5/8), long extension, & speeder handle.
-Vlchek WB* series double box wrenches.
-Hinsdale double-box end round shank wrenches.

Offline Papaw

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Re: My new 300 lb baby
« Reply #53 on: January 06, 2016, 05:51:48 PM »
I was only referring to the general direction things were going, not calling out anyone at all.
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Offline jabberwoki

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Re: My new 300 lb baby
« Reply #54 on: January 06, 2016, 07:23:21 PM »
Hmm looks like mine also. Love the ACME idea.

Looking forward to seeing the paint job

Offline Twilight Fenrir

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Re: My new 300 lb baby
« Reply #55 on: May 04, 2016, 08:34:04 AM »
Alrighty, sorry for the absence, life and such :P

The other day I decided I was probably not gonna be able to wrangle my teacher into helping me re-harden this baby any time soon, and I got sick of waiting, so I slapped it on my stand and started using it. Making a hardy for my new little Kohlswa anvil I picked up the other day.

It is a godsend! MUCH easier to use than trying to work around the damage on my cast anvil. It also rings super loud, so I hung a big spike through the pritchel and that helped significantly. I was working it pretty hard, hammering a big chunk of high carbon steel, but the face seems plenty hard for practical use.

My Vulcan has been sold, so now it's just my Peter Wright, and my luttle 100lb Kohlswa for my portable shop. Also in the process of making some portable stands for both, which I'll make a new thread for when I finish...

Thanks for all the help and suggestions offered throughout this, and sorry if I got a little defensive ;^^

Offline oldgoaly

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Re: My new 300 lb baby
« Reply #56 on: May 04, 2016, 08:56:09 AM »
Do you have it pointing north? how about the quench trough? Watching "iron & fire" the smithy says  when you heat metal to harden you take it above non-magnetic temp, so when it cools it bends to magnetic north.... Sound like B/S's "bs" 
I turned my anvils to north and found out why I didn't before! I've run into 2 of them and got the point! I have the bruises to prove it. My quench tanks are round so they always point north!
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Offline Twilight Fenrir

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Re: My new 300 lb baby
« Reply #57 on: May 04, 2016, 10:44:17 AM »
Do you have it pointing north? how about the quench trough? Watching "iron & fire" the smithy says  when you heat metal to harden you take it above non-magnetic temp, so when it cools it bends to magnetic north.... Sound like B/S's "bs" 
I turned my anvils to north and found out why I didn't before! I've run into 2 of them and got the point! I have the bruises to prove it. My quench tanks are round so they always point north!

Hahaha, actually, by pure fluke chance yes, the horn of my anvil points north :P

I know lots of people who swear by quenching magnetic north, but I think it's a lot of superstition... Besides, I've got a big steel oil can I use for quenching, which would block any effects anyway :P

Offline mikeswrenches

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Re: My new 300 lb baby
« Reply #58 on: May 04, 2016, 06:45:48 PM »
How about wrapping some chain around the waist(not your waist the one on the anvil) to reduce the ring?

Mike