Author Topic: Starter capacitor for small electric chainsaw sharpener motor  (Read 4204 times)

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Offline blackoak

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I recently bought an old, probably from the late 50's to mid 60's  Peerless brand chainsaw sharpener. This grinder is probably one of the best built grinder I have seen. It is in good shape after I totally tore it down and pretty well restored it. The only problem is when I first got it I plugged it in to see if it even worked. The motor worked perfect. After looking it over I notice  a mud dauber nest inside the electric motor. I took my air hose and blew several chunks of dried up chunks  of mud out. I finally got it all cleaned out and went ahead with cleaning it all up, repainting and lubricating everything that needed. Now that it is all  back together and looking fine the electric motor will not work. Flip the on switch and it will hum and with a little help by hand spinning the cutting wheel it will take off and work fine, but only after helping it get spinning by hand. I'm thinking it has to be the start up capacitor is bad. The capacitor is marked GE 63-42 60-CY Made in USA 49F2333 5UF 370v. I have looked on ebay and can't find the exact matching capacitor. I'm not to smart when it comes to electric motors as I'm sure you all can tell.. The one on it is a small 110 volt 1/10 hp this is about all I can read on the tag except it was made by the Howard Industries and research tells me they are not in the small motor business anymore. Can anybody tell me what capacitor will work on this motor or even if that's the problem. Like I said it worked good with the mud dauber nest and being crusty with years of dirt after I blew it out it no longer will work unless you give it a spin by hand. I have taken a few electric motors apart and cleaned them up, but about half the time they don't go back together near as easy as they come apart and I usually end up trashing them and buying a new one. The way this motor is made to mount on the swing arm for grinding the saw chain it has to be this style and shape. I have an older Foley  Belsaw chain grinder with about the same size motor with a start up capacitor . I took the capacitor  off of it and tried with this one and it didn't work.  I can use it by giving the wheel a spin by hand, but this really bugs me by having to do it. I want it fixed right. Any insight on a repair will be much appreciated.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2016, 06:42:45 PM by blackoak »

Offline oldgoaly

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Re: Starter capacitor for small electric chainsaw sharpener motor
« Reply #1 on: March 31, 2016, 07:02:05 PM »
capacitors are rated in microfarads that is what the 5UF stands for. also they have a voltage rating that is what the 370vac stands for. Now they can come in round, flat can (older) and oval can. You could sub a 440vac rated one for a 370vac but not the other way around. These capacitors stay in the circuit, they can hold a charge for some time, so be careful. they are oil filled and older ones do have pcb's in them. no danager unless they leak.
With out a capacitor tester it would be hard to tell if your capacitor is weak / bad. A older  VOM on the ohms scale can charge a capacitor and give a good idea if it is ok. DVM don't do as well.
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Offline blackoak

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Re: Starter capacitor for small electric chainsaw sharpener motor
« Reply #2 on: March 31, 2016, 07:51:07 PM »
capacitors are rated in microfarads that is what the 5UF stands for. also they have a voltage rating that is what the 370vac stands for. Now they can come in round, flat can (older) and oval can. You could sub a 440vac rated one for a 370vac but not the other way around. These capacitors stay in the circuit, they can hold a charge for some time, so be careful. they are oil filled and older ones do have pcb's in them. no danager unless they leak.
With out a capacitor tester it would be hard to tell if your capacitor is weak / bad. A older  VOM on the ohms scale can charge a capacitor and give a good idea if it is ok. DVM don't do as well.
I tested the volts of the two wire that hooks to the capacitor and get 80v when I turn it on. When I hook the capacitor up to the two wires and turn it on I am getting 0 volts  at the plug in's on the capacitor with  my Fluke digital tester  I got to looking around in my junk room and found another small motor with a  GE capacitor that is labeled 10UF 370vac and it also does not work. I hope I don't sound to ignorant, but does it matter which wire goes to which tab on the capacitor. I checked the original capacitor that came with the grinder for volts with it unhooked and sometimes it will show 2v and other times 0v I don't know why??
I probably should just take it to someone who knows what they are doing. If it runs on gas or diesel I can fix usually fix it, but the stuff Mr Edison invented I'm lost
Are you saying I need a capacitor rated for 5UF and at least 370vac. The one I found in my pile of junk is for 10UF 370vac and it's not working with the  original chain grinder motor but will when I plug it in hooked to it's original motor to any 110 outlet so I sure the capacitor is good on that motor. The only difference is it's rated 10UF and the grinder capacitor is 5UF
« Last Edit: March 31, 2016, 08:05:48 PM by blackoak »

Offline oldgoaly

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Re: Starter capacitor for small electric chainsaw sharpener motor
« Reply #3 on: April 01, 2016, 09:59:21 AM »
not how it works testing the capacitor, the 370vac is the rating, but it's for the counter EMF generated by the motor when running, The capacitor "electricly" takes the start winding out of the circuit when up to speed.
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Offline Aunt Phil

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Re: Starter capacitor for small electric chainsaw sharpener motor
« Reply #4 on: April 01, 2016, 12:36:35 PM »
Far greater chance the starting switch isn't operating properly than the capacitor is defective given you mentioned the muddobber nest inside the motor and using compressed air to clear that.
Timing has a lot to do with the outcome of a rain dance!

Offline oldgoaly

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Re: Starter capacitor for small electric chainsaw sharpener motor
« Reply #5 on: April 01, 2016, 02:12:26 PM »
there won't be a start / centrifugal switch with a "run capaictor" 
2 different types


black plastic "electrolitic" is use with a switch, it will burn up if not switched out of the circuit from the counter EMF.


silver or gray metal oil run capacitor type no switch. also known as a PSC perminently split capacitor.


you can not change the type of motor it is.

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Offline Aunt Phil

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Re: Starter capacitor for small electric chainsaw sharpener motor
« Reply #6 on: April 01, 2016, 07:56:42 PM »
there won't be a start / centrifugal switch with a "run capaictor" 
2 different types


black plastic "electrolitic" is use with a switch, it will burn up if not switched out of the circuit from the counter EMF.


silver or gray metal oil run capacitor type no switch. also known as a PSC perminently split capacitor.


you can not change the type of motor it is.

Capacitor housing material determines nothing.
If it's a Run capacitor, the motor won't spin up by hand and come to speed with a bad cap.
A start capacitor that's bad will allow the motor to be hand started and come to speed. 
A start capacitor that is not in circuit when the motor initially gets energized will leave the motor stationary and buzzing.
A start capacitor that stays in circuit too long after the motor begins to rotate will let the magic smoke out of the starting coil. 

Quick and dirty test, swap the capacitor with a known good and see what happens.  Try not to reboot your pacemaker in the process.
Timing has a lot to do with the outcome of a rain dance!

Offline oldgoaly

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Re: Starter capacitor for small electric chainsaw sharpener motor
« Reply #7 on: April 02, 2016, 08:02:31 AM »
oh yes it does!
2 different types of capacitor
oil/run caps can be in the circuit all the time,  look psc motor most hvac fan motor were this way, same with condensor fan motors.
These are in a metal can, oil filled.
[size=78%]start / electrolytic black plastic  has a electrolytic paste and dielectric paper like matrix. [/size]
[/size][size=78%]Not interchangable!, well if you want it to work for more than a day. the two wire will fit the spade terminals but no way are they ever made to work on the same motor.[/size]
5UF @ 370vac the rate makes it a oil/run cap.
a electrolytic for a small motor would be  60-140 uf @ 120vac.
smoke it if you want, but a 5-10$  5-370vac run capacitor is a very common.
 

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Offline blackoak

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Re: Starter capacitor for small electric chainsaw sharpener motor
« Reply #8 on: April 03, 2016, 10:45:32 AM »
I took the motor to a electric motor repair shop and he tested the cap and it showed good. He had a new one there and we plugged it into the motor and still it would not start the motor. Said it is probably the winding's in the motor. Didn't act like he wanted to mess with trying to repair it and if he did it would be expensive. I guess I will just use it as is and give it a helping hand on the start up. I will never find another original motor made to mount on the swing arm and line up with everything

Offline Aunt Phil

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Re: Starter capacitor for small electric chainsaw sharpener motor
« Reply #9 on: April 03, 2016, 11:01:03 AM »
I took the motor to a electric motor repair shop and he tested the cap and it showed good. He had a new one there and we plugged it into the motor and still it would not start the motor. Said it is probably the winding's in the motor. Didn't act like he wanted to mess with trying to repair it and if he did it would be expensive. I guess I will just use it as is and give it a helping hand on the start up. I will never find another original motor made to mount on the swing arm and line up with everything

OK, now that we established the problem is in the starting switch, and you had the motor working before you tore it down, why not just locate the starting coil wires going to that switch and add a SP momentary contact switch to the machine in place of the starting switch in the motor? 
Timing has a lot to do with the outcome of a rain dance!

Offline oldgoaly

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Re: Starter capacitor for small electric chainsaw sharpener motor
« Reply #10 on: April 03, 2016, 01:24:41 PM »
no starting switch in it!
2 sets of windings in parallel  with the capacitor in series with the start winding only. Permament Split Capacitor Motor.


Windings can break down, short from loop to loop and not burn up totally. They just never get up to speed.
rewinding a small motor can be done, but it isn't easy , not fun, not cheap to pay someone who knows how!
Guys and gals rewind  coils for old radios all the time, but that is easier than a small motor!


Lots of surplus motors out there, google the manufacturer's model number, it could hve been used in other small tool or machine application? You never know!

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Offline Aunt Phil

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Re: Starter capacitor for small electric chainsaw sharpener motor
« Reply #11 on: April 03, 2016, 07:00:41 PM »
no starting switch in it!
2 sets of windings in parallel  with the capacitor in series with the start winding only. Permament Split Capacitor Motor.


Windings can break down, short from loop to loop and not burn up totally. They just never get up to speed.
rewinding a small motor can be done, but it isn't easy , not fun, not cheap to pay someone who knows how!
Guys and gals rewind  coils for old radios all the time, but that is easier than a small motor!


Lots of surplus motors out there, google the manufacturer's model number, it could hve been used in other small tool or machine application? You never know!

NOT INDICATED DIAGNOSIS based on original post.
1 - " The only problem is when I first got it I plugged it in to see if it even worked. The motor worked perfect."

2 - "I took my air hose and blew several chunks of dried up chunks  of mud out. all  back together and looking fine the electric motor will not work."

3 - "Flip the on switch and it will hum and with a little help by hand spinning the cutting wheel it will take off and work fine, but only after helping it get spinning by hand."

I'm reading Air hose either destroyed start switch or blew something into start switch causing it to remain open, which accounts for both HUM and Hand Startable. 

Small cap start motors were built, Gomco hospital suction machines were famous for them, and most of those went to scrap from start switch failure.
I have a larger Baldor buffer that HUMS when powered but won't self rotate.  SP MOMC switch bypassing the start switch solves the problem, and the buffer self starts when the button is held down for a second as the motor is powered.

Once spinning the motor on that grinder has no need of a misphased starting coil to keep it running. 

The motor started & ran before the Air Hose.  It did NOT start after the Air Hose.  Likely failure caused by Air Hose.  Chance air hose destroyed a start winding is LOW.

Both coils should be meterable for continuity without disassembling the motor.
The run coil will appear across the line leads.  The start coil will likely be meterable from 1 side of the line to one of the Cap leads.  The only question is how the motor manufacturer sequenced wiring the start switch. 
Timing has a lot to do with the outcome of a rain dance!

Offline blackoak

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Re: Starter capacitor for small electric chainsaw sharpener motor
« Reply #12 on: April 03, 2016, 10:56:28 PM »
IF I can do the switch bypass, how hard is it and where do I the parts required to do it with. Like  I said before if it runs on gas or diesel , I can fix it, but electricity is not my bag. I know I can tear the motor apart, but it seems like when I tear an electric motor down it never goes back together and actually works again. There's 8 small screws that holds it all together with bearings on each end. Hell ,really giving the wheel a spin by hand to get it up and running is not to bad to do. At least now I can use it. What's the best, easy way to clean a dirty electric motor ? Seems like all the  tools I get that  use an electric motor are always crusty with some kind of critter living inside it that would love to bite, sting, or sink it's fangs in me.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2016, 11:11:53 PM by blackoak »

Offline Aunt Phil

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Re: Starter capacitor for small electric chainsaw sharpener motor
« Reply #13 on: April 03, 2016, 11:51:37 PM »
Can you shoot a couple pics of the motor showing where the endbells index to the stator body & post them? 

Also I see what looks like white cardboard inside the back end bell between the vent holes and windings.  Is that what's there or something occurring with the camera? 

How many wires are leaving the body of the motor into the green arm with the on/off switch?

Does that grinder rotate only in 1 direction or 2 directions?

That motor reminds me of an office machine motor, possibly a teletype motor. 

What information is on the nameplate just above the capacitor?
Timing has a lot to do with the outcome of a rain dance!

Offline blackoak

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Re: Starter capacitor for small electric chainsaw sharpener motor
« Reply #14 on: April 08, 2016, 10:08:43 AM »
Haven't been  able to get on line for a few days computer crashed big time and I just now got it back to working half way right. I will try and get some picttures of the motor  ASAP