Re: cobbler / shoemaker hammers

[Branson]

Thought I'd take this to general discussion.

>An aquiantance of mine who has a small shoe repair shop in our town once told me that the hammer he preffered to use had the front face of the hammer tilted down about 5 to 7 degrees in relation to the handle. He didn't know if it was originally made for a specific job but he said he used it for just about everything and found it to be found it to be the most comfortable. Has anybody else ever heard of this ?

I have a cobbler's hammer made this way, and think I've seen others.  I think it's just a variation, but made for the same job as all the others around.  I can see how the positioning would be useful.  Your hand would be slightly below the form, and some would appreciate the difference.   For all the similarity of such hammers, there is quite a bit of variation.  I have had a couple with square eyes, and I have one that is hand forged with a really big face -- maybe an inch and a half diameter.

[scottg]

All cobblers hammers are made this way. At least all the ones that actually sold to cobblers.
 The reason the face is tilted down are shoe lasts. They park the shoe at eye level so you are always hammering there, not down on a bench. 
 See the top one here.  This is a big mammoo, over 1 1/2" across the face.
 95% are smaller
 
 yours Scott

[Stoney]

ScottG I like that handle on the cobblers hammer.

[scottg]

Thanks!
 I carved these from some pretty pitiful hickory. Usually I can find broken tool handles in primo shape to use. But occasionally I have to use more mangy tool handles, sigh

 I carved these for a friend who was just starting in the knife business. He is doing well enough now.  Poor, but he's working!!
http://www.adriaangerberknives.com/
  yours Scott

[Stoney]

Wow I visited your friends knife site and I think I might have shorted out my keyboard with drool!!!!!!!!!!!!  I want one of Everything.

[Stoney]

On a post, and I can't find it, there was a reference to the difference between a shoe makers hammer and a cobblers hammer.

The hammer lower left is a cobblers hammer.  The hammer upper right is a shoe makers hammer.

As to face placement we sometimes adjust the face by the angle of that we install the handle.  For working on saddles I like mine straight.

[BruceS]

Thought I'd take this to general discussion.

>An aquiantance of mine who has a small shoe repair shop in our town once told me that the hammer he preffered to use had the front face of the hammer tilted down about 5 to 7 degrees in relation to the handle. He didn't know if it was originally made for a specific job but he said he used it for just about everything and found it to be found it to be the most comfortable. Has anybody else ever heard of this ?

Check this out,  another hammer that is tilted.  Probably for comfort.

http://www.liogier-france.fr/what-is-a-hand-stitched-rasp-riffler?lang=en

[scottg]

Well, I sure hate to disagree with a saddle man Stony, but they are both the same. Just different continents.
 The hammer on the left is an American cobbler's pattern and the one of the right is a French pattern cobblers. Cobblers repaired shoes and shoemakers made them from scratch, except both those words are completely interchangeable throughout most of history.  I have a United Shoe Manufacturing Company shoe factory hammer (often confused with the Marine Corp, same initials, but it really isn't at all)
 and it is the bog common standard pattern on the left.
 
 Really, the hammer on the right is a conglomeration of French and American. I guess the Franco-American pattern. heheheh
 The true French pattern is longer yet at the poll and tail. --Really-- long graceful things.
 I have never got to own a true French pattern yet, but I don't give up hope.

  Here's my hammer like yours.
 
  yours Scott

[Stoney]

Your probably right ScottG but that was what we called them at Southern and C.S. Osborne calls the French/American a shoe hammer and the cobblers is called a leather workers hammer.  They also offer a French Saddlers hammer.  Beautiful,  I'll be found owning one soon.

ScottG I love your handle work.  They look like a perfect marriage between hand and handle.

[scottg]

Awww thanks
 Yeah I had my choice of hammer heads all my life (French cobblers excluded) but seldom a whole good hammer worth having. At least that I could afford, heh.
So I have practically always carved handles. I've carved enough now to kind of know about the hand fit and the swing I prefer. I am never sure how they will fit another person, but someone the same size as me, I got that pegged. 
 I get to brag a little here.
  My friend Peter, I consider just best jeweler alive. His work is unreal. The astounding skill this man has in his hands is simply a lifetime of careful hard work, and a big fat gift besides. A huge rotten big fat gift!!! Lucky bastard.. grumble grumble. heeheheheheh

     So when I went to make him a hammer, I picked what I hoped would be right for doming and stake work. Like I really knew. I had to just take my best guess. His hands are roughly the same size as mine, but his arms a bit shorter, this I knew.
  I sent it off and waited. PJ lives in Au, btw, so the wait was considerable. 
Well he liked the hammer and all when it got there, yeah yeah,
 but then, 3 months later I finally got the word I was hoping for.
 Every day,......... he uses it every day.
 I even got a picture of his grandson on his lap giving the grandpa hammer a try.   
 This is what I live for.
  Not just a tool, but a tool that works its way inside, for a lifetime.
 yours Scott

[Branson]

Here are some more cobblers' hammers:

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=cobblers+hammers&view=detail&id=D6F39105236DBAD4CAF6FD3C866E5F2DC2A2ADA8&first=0

The first two on the left with the slender profile, wide head and pein, and the square eye were described to me as saddler's hammers.  The one I have was blacksmith made.  (The second one on the left has a mark that reminds me of the mark we were looking for not long ago.)

Cobblers' hammers seem to be going these days for much higher prices, not the $.50 to $5 I remember only a few years ago.

[Stoney]

I use the head for driving nails/tacks and the pein for tack driving in tight places and for shaping leather like shaping up and tacking up under the cantle.   We sometimes use the standard cobblers hammer, the longer french style shoe hammer and an 8-12 oz long head tack hammer in tacking up a saddle depending on where on the saddle you are working.  It depends on your likes.  One interesting fact, you hardly ever see a left handed saddler.  I only knew one the whole time I worked as a saddler. In a production shop they would be on the wrong side.  You do your best work on the opposite side therefore a right hander does their best work on the near side (left side) of the saddle.  The left side is called the near side because that is the standard side to mount a horse so that is the side most people will approach a saddle if they are looking to buy it.  You therefore want that side to be the best.  I was fortunate to be ambidextrous so I could work both sides equally well.  Those are sweet looking heads Branson.  I'm restoring a small abused cobblers hammer now.  I'll post photos when I finish.

[Branson]

You find, from time to time, a cobbler's hammer in the kits of old cabinet makers, exactly for tack and small nail driving in tight places.  I picked up the practice, and used one until I found a Warrington hammer -- great for tapping small or short nails without tapping your fingers.

I hadn't thought about people approaching a saddle to buy from the near side!  But it makes good sense -- that's the side they'll look at the most every time they use it. 

Near and off isn't restricted to horses and mounting.  The expression "I don't know him from Adam's off ox"  comes from the same usage.  That would be the ox on the far side of the near ox, and you couldn't tell much about that one when approaching them from their left. 

Curious practice...  I wonder if it's related to driving on the left side of the road.  That was the old practice in wagon driving in England back in the day of narrow paths through deserted areas because it left the right hand freer to defend oneself from highwaymen.

[Stoney]

Cobblers hammers were used by a lot of other trades where they would not be used to hit metal other than tacks.  This cobblers that I'm restoring has had a hard life.  The face is distorted and pitted.  Cobblers are not hard tempered and easily damaged.

Horses/mule teams are near and off.  Horse teams will move around the pasture like they are harnessed up and will stay near and off.  We had a collie that was blind in her left eye and a cur that was blind in his right eye.  They would run keeping their blind side to each other as if trusting the other to watch their blind side.  Together they made a two eyed dog.