Author Topic: repairing wrenches  (Read 4948 times)

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Offline 1930

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Re: repairing wrenches
« Reply #15 on: June 06, 2011, 03:22:25 PM »
BTW, at this point I think I better hold off on doing anything until I have more information on how to go about the proper repair. I dont want to damage the wrenches further....I will not damage the wrenches further, they mean too much to me even in their saddened state.
I would appreciate any tips you might have, tell me how to get started properly and make a go at it where I might have a better chance.
Always looking for what interests me, anything early Dodge Brothers/Graham Brothers trucks ( pre 1932 or so ) and slant six / Super six parts.

Offline strik9

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Re: repairing wrenches
« Reply #16 on: June 06, 2011, 06:13:32 PM »
1930, you inspired me to use my FIAT  17 DOE as a test piece.  It is a forged wrench but I have no stamped ones at all.  I can't do a step by step but I could do a partial repair on mine  with each face at a different step to show what to expect.  My camera sucks doggy doo but I am trying.

I cut and placed a piece of flat steel in the face of the jaw filed away and welded it in from all sides.  Then a trip to the grinder to smooth out the welds to a hair above the face I want to polish.  Pic 1 shows how both ends looked before any repairs.  Pic 2 and 3 show the after the grinder step.  You can see the edge of the bead yet and a small crack that wasn't filled.  I went back to the welder and filled and reground those areas.
After that I sanded with 120 grit to remove the grind marks, finishing with a tight circular sand holding the paper on the table and moving the wrench.  This eliminated linear scratches that are a dead giveaway to a repair job.  Pics 4 and 5 are the finished face.  I still have to decide what size to make it yet.  It measures at 16.08 mm and I may just leave it there as a 16mm.

I do hope this helps you some.  I apologize for the crappy pics.

« Last Edit: June 06, 2011, 06:22:25 PM by strik9 »
The only bad tool is the one that couldn't finish the job.  Ironicly it may be the best tool for the next job.

Offline strik9

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Re: repairing wrenches
« Reply #17 on: June 06, 2011, 06:32:49 PM »
The boring details.  I used 3/16" 6013 rod at 110 amps and a light almost spot welding type touch.  The hand grinder was used to get a less scratched up surface than the bench grinder could.  This is a less than perfect job on a rough condition wrench.  I am guessing mid 20's so I used carbon steel as fill stock to try to get a color match as you desire.  Weathering I am not familiar with, I leave that up to you.

  I have no clue as to the wrench other than it is marked F.I.A.T  with a 17 and a 6 pt. star stamped in the shank.  And the possibility of a well worn forged 14 at the small unrestored end.  It is too worn to be sure but that could have been the original size as it is now at a tapered 15.5 to 14.8 mm.  Time and a need to enlarge it have been noted.
The only bad tool is the one that couldn't finish the job.  Ironicly it may be the best tool for the next job.

Offline 1930

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Re: repairing wrenches
« Reply #18 on: June 06, 2011, 10:54:21 PM »
looks to be a good job strik9, I dont have as much material to play with as a forged wrench so that will be a challenge for me.
I am also wondering, if I  have a wrench that I am  trying to size up to be a 3/8 lets say, should it measure 3/8 exact across the flats, I would think there would have to be a 1/16 or so play. Do manufacturers always/have they always allowed a bit extra like I describe. Thanks again, that was inspirational
Always looking for what interests me, anything early Dodge Brothers/Graham Brothers trucks ( pre 1932 or so ) and slant six / Super six parts.

Offline strik9

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Re: repairing wrenches
« Reply #19 on: June 06, 2011, 11:48:33 PM »
1/32" to less than 1/16" more than the largest actual fastener on the car seems to be an industry standard of the 20's to 30's.
The only bad tool is the one that couldn't finish the job.  Ironicly it may be the best tool for the next job.

Offline 1930

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Re: repairing wrenches
« Reply #20 on: June 07, 2011, 03:54:24 AM »
Ok, thanks again
Always looking for what interests me, anything early Dodge Brothers/Graham Brothers trucks ( pre 1932 or so ) and slant six / Super six parts.

Offline scottg

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Re: repairing wrenches
« Reply #21 on: June 07, 2011, 09:28:31 AM »
    Atta Boy Strik9!!
 How did I know you were going to try it??
    You are  INCORRIGIBLE!!
  I love it so. 

 I think 60 series rod was a great idea. I use the fast freeze 60 series often, but mostly because I can't even get 50 series anymore. I used to love that stuff. Do they even make it now? Nobody seems to carry it. 
 
 Beautiful welds and taking it down to 100 was walking the tightrope.
 Nice grinding too. Real nice. 
  You got a hot hand! 

 oh and PS, Jason
 You weren't a jerk at all, just a regular human.  You only wanted what we all want, and said so.
 It "was" just a bit like telling Palladio how to design a building, Michaelangelo how to carve marble or Michael Jackson how to dance, when you hadn't even been to Arthur Murray yet.    heehehehheh

    Dig in and practice some. Build your own skill and let us admire.
  There is room at the top, my friend! Plenty of room.  Get in and dance.
 Toolmaking is a time honored tradition.  Goes back to the caves and beyond.
    yours Scott
« Last Edit: June 07, 2011, 09:49:21 AM by scottg »

Offline strik9

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Re: repairing wrenches
« Reply #22 on: June 07, 2011, 06:01:53 PM »
I try Scott, but alas my resources are limited.  I have seen your work and my hackjobs pale miserably.  Someday the woodworking part will be mine but there are a few things to get yet, like woodworking tools.....

1930, go for it, but practice on a lesser  or common stamped wrench first.  As you probably guessed this isn't the first I've attempted, look for my thread on restoring a 1930's Gray wrench.  Now that was my first effort and a real challenge. 
The only bad tool is the one that couldn't finish the job.  Ironicly it may be the best tool for the next job.

Offline 1930

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Re: repairing wrenches
« Reply #23 on: June 07, 2011, 06:02:44 PM »
Yes, I remember seeing that topic
Always looking for what interests me, anything early Dodge Brothers/Graham Brothers trucks ( pre 1932 or so ) and slant six / Super six parts.

Offline Aunt Phil

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Re: repairing wrenches
« Reply #24 on: June 07, 2011, 09:53:42 PM »
My approach would be a bit different from Strikes.  I have more equipment at my disposal and I cheat a lot!

First I'd make a carbon slug in the shape of the desired opening, probably 1/16 smaller.  Then I'd open up the existing jaws to almost a knife edge or a doorstop edge if the jaw is 3/16 thick or less. 

From there the wrench would be clamped to a copper bar, and the carbon button placed.

Next would be building the jaw to the carbon with MIG probably E70 S6 wire or E70 S2 if it was available.  I'd run it a little hot and overbuild the thickness of the jaw back about half way to the outside of the jaw.
The buildup could also be done with O/A.  Experimentation and process selection would be done on a similar shape before welding the wrench itself.

Regardless of weld process, as soon as the weld is complete and while it's still red hot the wrench would be visiting the anvil for some impact to flatten the weld and smear the line of the junction.  I've gotten good enough at this trick to confuse some good Smiths on how something was actually built.

After cooling the wrench would find itself on a tool grinder for grinding down to within .001 on each side, and paralelling up the jaws to within rough dimension, probably actual size.

Next would be faking the original finish.  This might be done with a straightline sander or a DA sander depending on the arrival appearance.

With the wrench now at the correct size it would be allowed to rust a bit, and then treated with either phosphoric or tannic acid.  The final finish would depend mainly on how it looked coming in.
Timing has a lot to do with the outcome of a rain dance!

Offline 1930

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Re: repairing wrenches
« Reply #25 on: June 08, 2011, 03:36:27 AM »
Thanks for the ideas Phil
Always looking for what interests me, anything early Dodge Brothers/Graham Brothers trucks ( pre 1932 or so ) and slant six / Super six parts.

Offline 1930

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Re: repairing wrenches
« Reply #26 on: June 08, 2011, 02:32:11 PM »
Ok I just have to ask Phil, what do you mean carbon slug, BTW I like you idea of hitting the weld while its hot, I have used this myself.
Always looking for what interests me, anything early Dodge Brothers/Graham Brothers trucks ( pre 1932 or so ) and slant six / Super six parts.

Offline Aunt Phil

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Re: repairing wrenches
« Reply #27 on: June 08, 2011, 09:47:44 PM »
I'm going to make this easy on my fingertips.
Carbon has 2 unique properties, one electrical and one physical.  For the purpose of this job the fact that Carbon is the only element known that shrinks as its temperature rises, and that carbon is electricly conductive make it the ideal material to use as a slug.

It's a fairly common practice in repair welding to insert a threaded carbon rod into a threaded hole that has broken out and weld new metal to the slug.  When the weld cools the carbon is broken out and a tap is used to clean the hole up.

Since I'm at a disadvantage not knowing exactly what the wrench in question looks like I can't say how I'd make the slug.  I can only offer an example.  If the wrench had a 4 sided opening like a MAC, I'd carve or grind the carbon to be a 4 sided positive of what the wrench is supposed to grip. 

The difficult part here would be mounting and holding the carbon.  That would be a tossup between gluing it in place on a copper bar, or drilling and tapping the carbon to accept a screw through the copper bar.  The setup would be time consuming, but getting the setup right will also save a lot of time grinding the opening.

Truth is I'd probably do some digging in the junque wrench bucket looking for a close match and run the job on the junquer first to see how it worked.  When you only get one shot at a repair it can be a beach!

Timing has a lot to do with the outcome of a rain dance!

Offline 1930

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Re: repairing wrenches
« Reply #28 on: June 09, 2011, 12:10:00 PM »
Ok lots of info and thanks
Always looking for what interests me, anything early Dodge Brothers/Graham Brothers trucks ( pre 1932 or so ) and slant six / Super six parts.