Author Topic: Hand Planes  (Read 160074 times)

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Offline Branson

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Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #30 on: December 11, 2013, 06:35:01 AM »
Thanks for this information, Jim.  I picked up one of these some years ago, basically NOS -- the blade hadn't even been honed (and still hasn't).

Offline johnsironsanctuary

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Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #31 on: December 11, 2013, 08:59:18 AM »
Many thanks to Jimc for starting this thread.  In the past few months, I have picked up a few user grade old planes. I have a couple of transition Stanley's that belonged to my wife's grandfather. I have used an old Stanley 220 block plane for many years. Just this past week, I bought a Stanley 45 on ebay. I have a lot to learn about that one. A month or so ago I bought an underlined Craftsman rabbet plane that has a second frog on it that let's you move the blade and use it as a bullnose. I am not sure that it is the best idea ever conceived, but it is in unused condition and I could not resist. I'll post pictures later of these and the pair of #27  Stanley transitions.  One was a tune up and use and the other got the iron parts re-japanned. Anyway, thanks again Jimc for a great thread!
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Offline Jim C.

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Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #32 on: December 11, 2013, 09:12:12 AM »
Thanks for this information, Jim.  I picked up one of these some years ago, basically NOS -- the blade hadn't even been honed (and still hasn't).

I love finding NOS hand planes!  Still, I'm always conflicted when I do find one because I want to try it out and see how it works.  At the same time, I know that it will only remain NOS if I leave it alone and don't do anything to it, like sharpening the iron, etc.  That's when I go find a "user quality" plane for purposes of satisfying my itch to give it a try.  The Stanley #271 is easily one of my favorites to use.  I have one from the 1930s with most of its nickel plating worn thin or completely missing in spots.  It works perfectly and it's a pleasure to use.  The two #271s depicted above spend a lot of time in their respective boxes.  They only come out for pictures, reference, and comparisons to other examples for educational purposes.

Jim C.     
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Offline Jim C.

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Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #33 on: December 11, 2013, 09:42:17 AM »
Many thanks to Jimc for starting this thread.  In the past few months, I have picked up a few user grade old planes. I have a couple of transition Stanley's that belonged to my wife's grandfather. I have used an old Stanley 220 block plane for many years. Just this past week, I bought a Stanley 45 on ebay. I have a lot to learn about that one. A month or so ago I bought an underlined Craftsman rabbet plane that has a second frog on it that let's you move the blade and use it as a bullnose. I am not sure that it is the best idea ever conceived, but it is in unused condition and I could not resist. I'll post pictures later of these and the pair of #27  Stanley transitions.  One was a tune up and use and the other got the iron parts re-japanned. Anyway, thanks again Jimc for a great thread!

Thanks John.  I'll try to keep it light, educational, and motivating.  I really do appreciate your kind remarks.  If it gets boring, confusing, or uninteresting, just let me know.  We're on a public forum here so constructive criticism is expected and welcomed.  Part of the reason I started the thread was to see what others have in their collections and on their workbenches.  I'm hopeful that you and others will post pictures, comments, and relate their experiences using and collecting hand planes of any era, make, condition, and preference.  I'm partial to Stanley cast iron, but I hope that will not dissuade anyone from joining in the thread.     

Back to the planes.  I'm glad to hear that you've been adding to your collection.  The Stanley #45 is A LOT of fun to play with.  There's a book still in print (I think) that's soley dedicated to the Stanley #45.  It was written by David Heckel.  It's a "must read" for any combination plane enthusiast/user/collector.  Your Craftsman plane sounds like the Stanley #78.  That was one of Stanley's most popular planes.  There's a pretty good chance that your plane was manufactured for Sears by Stanley, or Sargent.  Post a few pictures.  Let's see what you have there.

Jim C.
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Offline johnsironsanctuary

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Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #34 on: December 11, 2013, 12:09:25 PM »
Jim, you inspired me to go looking in some of the darker Hidy holes in my basement. I came up with 15 planes.  I didn't realize that I had that many.  A couple weeks ago, I was at the Family Sharing Thrift Store and bought a Stanley #27 Transition Plane.  I got it home and discovered that I already had one!  So I torew them apart and started into a user restoration. Wash with mineral spirits, rotary wire brush the rusty blades and chip iron, sharpen and a couple coats of Galoot Mix and voila! One of them is a good, clean user. The other one had a nicer tote and knob and the beech was in better shape, so I went through the same drill only I stripped the japanning off. It was almost gone anyway. I don't have the secret formula for japanning, so I used a modern product that is a lot easier and almost as tough. POR 15.  It is an automotive restoration paint that I have used extensively on my Model A Ford.  It is, of course, a proprietary formula that the manufacturer is kinda secretive about. As near as I can figure, it is Super Glue with black pigment in it.  It flows out beautifully, and dries in a few hours to a very tough gloss black finish that is about as tough as powder coating. It was a little too glossy for my taste, so I buffed the shine down with OO steel wool.  I like the results.  The POR 15 sets up  like Super Glue with humidity. The drier the air, the longer it takes to set.

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Offline Jim C.

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Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #35 on: December 11, 2013, 01:34:24 PM »
Jim, you inspired me to go looking in some of the darker Hidy holes in my basement. I came up with 15 planes.  I didn't realize that I had that many.  A couple weeks ago, I was at the Family Sharing Thrift Store and bought a Stanley #27 Transition Plane.  I got it home and discovered that I already had one!  So I torew them apart and started into a user restoration. Wash with mineral spirits, rotary wire brush the rusty blades and chip iron, sharpen and a couple coats of Galoot Mix and voila! One of them is a good, clean user. The other one had a nicer tote and knob and the beech was in better shape, so I went through the same drill only I stripped the japanning off. It was almost gone anyway. I don't have the secret formula for japanning, so I used a modern product that is a lot easier and almost as tough. POR 15.  It is an automotive restoration paint that I have used extensively on my Model A Ford.  It is, of course, a proprietary formula that the manufacturer is kinda secretive about. As near as I can figure, it is Super Glue with black pigment in it.  It flows out beautifully, and dries in a few hours to a very tough gloss black finish that is about as tough as powder coating. It was a little too glossy for my taste, so I buffed the shine down with OO steel wool.  I like the results.  The POR 15 sets up  like Super Glue with humidity. The drier the air, the longer it takes to set.



Wow!! You did a GREAT job restoring that plane John!!  How does it cut?  I'd also like to see and hear more about that old Ford.  Have you considered starting a thread about it?

Jim C.
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Offline johnsironsanctuary

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Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #36 on: December 11, 2013, 04:16:31 PM »
The planes cut nicely.  The Model A has been on the back burner for a couple of years.  I'm getting back to it now, but damn, it is cold out there in the garage.

Here is the Craftsman rabbet plane.  I would date it as late 40's.





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Offline Jim C.

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Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #37 on: December 11, 2013, 05:36:22 PM »
The planes cut nicely.  The Model A has been on the back burner for a couple of years.  I'm getting back to it now, but damn, it is cold out there in the garage.

Here is the Craftsman rabbet plane.  I would date it as late 40's.







John,

Thanks for posting a few photos of your Craftsman rabbet plane.  It looks to be in great condition.  After looking at some of its features, to include the little horn/handle at the front of the main casting, I'd have to say that your plane was most likely made by Sargent.  Your plane is VERY similar in appearance to the Sargent #79, which was produced between 1910 and 1953.  Unfortunately, I do not have an example to show you, but if you do a little research, I'm sure you can find out more about the Sargent #79 and possibly more about your plane.  I do know that when Sargent initially started producing the #79, it did not have the little horn on the front of the casting.  The little horn showed up on much later versions of the plane.

Jim C.     
« Last Edit: December 11, 2013, 05:41:37 PM by Jim C. »
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Offline Branson

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Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #38 on: December 12, 2013, 07:20:26 AM »
>After looking at some of its features, to include the little horn/handle at the front of the main casting, I'd have to say that your plane was most likely made by Sargent.  Your plane is VERY similar in appearance to the Sargent #79, which was produced between 1910 and 1953.

I have one of each, and they are identical.  The bar for the side stop of the Craftsman fits the Sargent, pretty sure.  I'll have to check again.  My Craftsman has a little surface rust, but is otherwise in the same condition.  Alas, though it has the bar, the stop and the depth stop are missing.

Offline Jim C.

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Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #39 on: December 12, 2013, 08:37:31 AM »
>After looking at some of its features, to include the little horn/handle at the front of the main casting, I'd have to say that your plane was most likely made by Sargent.  Your plane is VERY similar in appearance to the Sargent #79, which was produced between 1910 and 1953.

I have one of each, and they are identical.  The bar for the side stop of the Craftsman fits the Sargent, pretty sure.  I'll have to check again.  My Craftsman has a little surface rust, but is otherwise in the same condition.  Alas, though it has the bar, the stop and the depth stop are missing.

Hey Branson, thanks for the confirmation.  I kind of thought that John's Craftsman plane was actually a Sargent product in disguise, but it's always best to see the planes up close, and hold them in your hands for more accurate comparisons.  A few pictures of your Sargent and Craftsman planes side by side might be nice if you have the time to post a few.  Thanks again.

Jim C.
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Offline Jim C.

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Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #40 on: December 12, 2013, 10:08:36 AM »
I noticed earlier today that I was coming up on my 100th post to this web site, so I thought I might commemorate the occasion with something a little out of the ordinary.  Many years ago, when I discovered that using hand planes in my woodworking was at times easier, more accurate, and more enjoyable than just using power tools, I bought a Stanley #1.  It came from the estate of a man who had recently passed away.  The man's son worked with my wife and knew I was a woodworker (of sorts).  Anyway, I went to the man's house with my wife's co-worker, and ended up bringing home a pretty good collection of older, well used woodworking/hand tools.  Among the tools were a few planes to include this Stanley #1.  As you can see, it has some nice patina on it, and it has been fairly well used but not abused during it's lifetime.  Believe it or not, I still USE this plane.

Stanley #1:

This is one of Stanley's more collectible planes.  It's relatively rare, although it was produced for several decades between 1867 and 1943.  The example below was probably manufactured in the early 1920s.  I think it's miniature size has something to do with its collectibility.  It's technically a "bench plane" just like its more common, and larger, siblings (#2 though #8).  If you ever run across one, know what you're looking at!  These little guys can be pricey and buying one that's damaged, non factory altered, or an outright forgery, can be an expensive mistake.  Here's a few things to keep an eye out for:

1. All Stanley bench planes had their respective model numbers cast into the main body of the plane themselves.  The #1 never had it's model cast onto it anywhere.... ever.

2. The #1 never had a lateral cutting iron adjusting lever.

3. The #1 was only produced with a smooth sole.  It never came with factory installed corrugations milled into its sole.

4. The #1 is 5 25/32" long and 1 17/32" wide.  Measure it using a ruler with graduations as fine as 1/32".  Don't try to "eyeball it."

5. Do your homework before buying. 

Jim C.  (100th post)
« Last Edit: March 20, 2014, 07:58:13 PM by Jim C. »
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Offline scottg

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Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #41 on: December 12, 2013, 11:52:57 AM »
      Gorgeous #1 Jim! A sweetheart!!

  The Sargent made Crafty is probably slightly lesser quality than a standard Sargent marked plane of the same time period.
 Many companies made planes for Sears over time. But Sears demanded such a low wholesale buying price that corners were invariably cut to meet the demand.

 I had a Millers Falls made Craftsman that was major lesser quality. While riding by on a fast horse it wasn't so bad.
  But on closer inspection, to say nothing of actual utility, that plane was an embarrassment to the great Millers Falls company!
 
 I have another Craftsman marked Millers plane, that is --much-- higher quality, and in fact is my go to "rough out" jack plane, and has been for 30 years and thensome. It was a gift from a friend and has local history. It has one of the first totes I ever carved on it too. 

 Hardware chain marked tools are like that a lot of times. Some will be bad, some will be good and some will be outstanding.  Montgomery Wards' Lakeside brand is one of the most variable. I have seen some completely dismal tools with the Lakeside brand and I have a few chisels I swear were made by Whitherby. As good as it gets.

 Keen Kutter, HS&B's OVB line, Stiletto, and Vaughan & Bushnell marked goods are always top quality in my experience.    Some hardware chains sold only the best.

Sears, Monkey Wards, LF&C, Bellnap, Western Auto, in later days JC Penny.........
  These are all a serious crap shoot.
       yours Scott

 
 

Offline Jim C.

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Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #42 on: December 12, 2013, 01:41:47 PM »
Thanks for the additional info Scott.  You know, I have noticed that rebranded planes do occasionally have some quality control issues, or that they're not exactly like the original.  It makes sense that Sears demanded a lower buying price (because it could) and consequently caused the manufacturer (Sargent) to make up the difference somewhere else such as in materials, finish, packaging, and overall quality control.  I wonder how the prices compared between the original and the rebranded planes.  Using John's Craftsman rabbet plane as an example, which would have had the higher retail price?  The original Sargent #79, or the rebranded Craftsman?

Jim C. 
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Offline scottg

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Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #43 on: December 12, 2013, 02:21:12 PM »
An original Sargent would have never sold as cheap as Sears sold their model.
 
  It is my understanding that Sears was the "fall back" buyer when a company needed money in the worst way. When regular sales were in a slump, they could sell to Sears for practically the price of materials.
 No profit would be made but they could live to fight another day. 
  A few companies just set their sights on Sears as a market, and made marginal quality goods from the get go. Sears was not too picky, as long as the item was barely adequate, and cheap.
   
   On the other hand, I have never had any item marked OBV (Our Very Best, from Hibbard Spencer and Bartlett) that was not at the pinnacle of production for the time.
Its one of the things to look for when looking for tools and such.

  Most seasoned collectors are leery of any hardware marked goods for the reasons we are talking about. (except Keen Kutter or Winchester and this is just all about the name)
 They overlook all hardware brands, dismissing them as inferior at a glance. 
 
 OVB was one you should never overlook.

   yours Scott

 PS Vaughan and Bushnell is another. Tip top goods is why Vaughan is still in business, (mostly hammers),  even today.

 PPS  The picture is of celluloid backed giveaway pocket mirrors, in case you don't recognize them offhand. These were very popular in the early 1900's with some going longer. Not sure how many girls wanted a purse mirror advertizing tools or laxative. But I guess that is why they are rare. 
« Last Edit: December 12, 2013, 02:27:36 PM by scottg »

Offline Jim C.

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Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #44 on: December 12, 2013, 03:14:32 PM »
Thanks Scott!  Like I said earlier, a lot to do with collecting old tools, or anything for that matter, is getting an education and some experience.  A person can never have enough of either one.

Jim C.
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