Author Topic: Hand Planes  (Read 321365 times)

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Offline Bill Houghton

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Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #570 on: March 09, 2015, 12:02:54 PM »
For those inspired by this conversation about the Stanley No. 60 plane to go find one for themselves: the evolution of the 60 (1/2) followed that of other Stanley block planes, in that the tools got less substantial as Stanley "value engineered" the tools away from their glory days.  In the case of the block plane, the bedding for the iron got smaller over time.  Toward the very end, it was less than 1/4" wide*.  Jim's is a Sweetheart era plane - note the extensive bedding for the iron in the photos.  The models between Jim's and the pitiful later models (in particular, the pre-war models) had pretty decent bedding, too, though not quite as extensive as on the Sweetheart model shown.  If you want a No. 60 (or 60-1/2; they're functionally the same plane) for yourself, check out the bedding; if planes show up in your neighborhood frequently, watch for one with better bedding.

The later planes work OK; it's just that the earlier ones work more OK than the later ones.

Another point is that the consensus is that Stanley's planes got worse after World War II, reaching dreadful about the same time that blue paint replaced the black japanning, and then dreadful plus when the maroon paint replaced the blue paint.  This does not seem to have happened quite so fast with the block planes.  I had a blue-painted 60-1/2 and a maroon 60-1/2 at the same time.  Now, cases aren't statistics, so my observations of these two don't demonstrate anything in general about the earlier/later quality.  But the blue-painted plane was better, with a flatter sole, and performed better.  Still, the maroon plane, with a sharp iron, did well on pine end grain (one of the tests of blade sharpness and plane quality).  So, if you find a blue-painted 60-1/2 at a good price, don't ignore it.

In this area, I can generally find one in the range from $1 to $5.  It appears these prices are lower than in some places, though.
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*Interestingly, Stanley's English-built redesign of the block plane - not the most recent "Sweetheart" models, but the model in between, looking like ths

has returned to pretty substantial bedding for the iron.  One of the engineers must have been a woodworker.  If I found one of those at a yard sale for a good price, and it was the first one I'd found, I'd probably buy it, replacing the iron with an aftermarket iron (I like Lee Valley's irons, which come pretty well dead flat on the back, and sharp enough to cut wood, and your fingers, right out of the box).
« Last Edit: March 10, 2015, 10:31:57 AM by Bill Houghton »

Offline Branson

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Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #571 on: March 10, 2015, 09:27:50 AM »
I've ended up with three of the English Stanley block planes.  Two were left me by a friend who passed away, and the third was in a good sized  tool lot I picked up for $20.  I have been really impressed with their substantial weight and truly great performance.  They are a delight to use.

Online Jim C.

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Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #572 on: March 11, 2015, 10:42:14 PM »
After featuring the Stanley #60 block plane, I got to thinking about how the feature sort of turned into an accounting of my affinity for nickel plating.  Well, Stanley also put a premium on it too.  Earlier I mentioned that the #60 (with nickel plated parts) was identical to the #60 1/2 (with japanned and brass parts).  Functionally the two planes were identical.  Cosmetically, well, the #60 1/2 is a little less fancy.  Below I've included a photo of from the 1915 Stanley #34 tool catalog.  Take a look at the price list at the bottom of the page.  Notice how the #60 cost $1.25 and the #60 1/2 cost $1.10.  Back in the day, a little extra pizzaz would cost you 15 cents!!  It was the same story for the #65 and #65 1/2.  The second photo depicts the #60 (Type 5, 1924 to 1930) in the foreground and the #60 1/2 (Type 4, 1914 to 1924) in the background.  See the cosmetic differences?  In the end however, the #60 1/2 far outlasted the #60.  While the #60 was produced from 1898 to 1950, the #60 1/2 was manufactured from 1902 until the mid 1980s.

Jim C.

(I'd also like to thank you guys for adding some GREAT content to the thread regarding the Stanley #60 and #60 1/2 block planes.  I really like reading your comments and seeing what you have in your collections.  Thanks for checking in and chipping in!)   
« Last Edit: March 12, 2015, 09:20:50 AM by Jim C. »
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Offline Bill Houghton

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Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #573 on: March 13, 2015, 09:14:04 AM »
I'll buy No. 62 planes for $2.85 all day long!

Online Jim C.

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Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #574 on: March 13, 2015, 11:18:37 AM »
I'll buy No. 62 planes for $2.85 all day long!

Me too Bill.  Now if you move the decimal point two places to the right, you'd be in the ball park for a nice one in good user condition.....however, using that particular model could be risky!!  The throats on those were extremely fragile and prone to cracking.  If you'd like a #62 in pristine collector condition, again move the decimal point two places to the right and then multiply by about 2.5 or so. Want a really nice one in its original box.....Multiply by 4 or 5.  If I only had a time machine.....

Jim C.
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Offline Bill Houghton

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Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #575 on: March 13, 2015, 01:35:01 PM »
I've got a 62 that's very clean except for a hanging hole that ruins its collectibility.  I figure that makes it a user.

Online Jim C.

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Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #576 on: March 13, 2015, 10:25:18 PM »
I've got a 62 that's very clean except for a hanging hole that ruins its collectibility.  I figure that makes it a user.

Hey Bill,

Over the years, I've seen many hand planes with owner added hang holes, among other things.  It happened.  If you bought it as an investment, well, the hole probably won't appeal to a collector, but if you bought it for the experience and enjoyment of using a relatively rare vintage tool, then I'd say you're probably okay.  Just be careful with that throat!! A hang hole won't even remotely effect its functionality.  A cracked throat is a different story. 

Jim C.   
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Online Jim C.

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Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #577 on: March 28, 2015, 10:59:37 PM »
A couple weeks ago we were talking about Stanley block planes and at some point the topic took a turn from the #60 and to the #62.  Well, it seemed like a perfect segue that was too easy to pass up.  If any of you were wondering (or not), I really don’t have any specific plan/outline/agenda in terms of what plane I feature, and when I feature it.  I was just sort of hoping that one thing would lead to another and a logical flow would simply occur.  Sometimes I’ll choose a plane to feature because I’m using it out in the shop, or I read something about it, or it came up in conversation here or in another thread.  Anyway, there’s really no rhyme or reason to it. 

Stanley #62:

This is probably one of Stanley’s best and worst designed block planes.  Yes, it’s a block plane!  Although it’s 14” long like a common jack plane and it kind of resembles a bench plane, it’s still a block plane.  The cutter is bedded at about 12 degrees and it has an adjustable throat giving it the basic characteristics of a block plane.  Notice that it also has a pressure cap holding the iron in place versus the double iron/lever cap configuration found on most bench planes.  The low angle and adjustable throat combine to make it a great tool for slicing end grain on larger work pieces, and for performing other larger scale block plane related applications.

The problem with the #62 is its throat.  The sole immediately behind the point where the cutter protrudes through the bottom of the body tapers to practically nothing.  With the low bedding angle to accommodate the iron, that section of the sole just behind the cutter is really thin.  Taking too deep a cut and then accidentally getting a shaving jammed between the iron and the sole is a guarantee for that back section of the throat just behind the iron to crack right off.  More than half of those I’ve seen are cracked or chipped in the same general location.  Unfortunately, for that reason alone, the #62 is probably not a plane that one would want to use.  They’re just too expensive to risk cracking and ruining.  Even a user quality #62 will be relatively costly, so be careful, set the iron and throat for a really light pass, and take it easy.  Make absolutely sure the iron is super sharp so that it cuts easily and you're not forcing the plane across the surface of the work piece as may happen when the iron gets dull.  A dull iron tends to dig into the work piece creating a lot of extra downward force which translates to additional downward force on the throat of the plane just below the iron itself.  That's another reason they crack.

Other aspects of the #62 that make it unique are some of its parts.  Notice the front knob is seated on a nickel plated disk with two little nubs protruding from it.  Those nubs fit into corresponding indentations in the bottom of the knob itself.  By slightly loosening the knob, the disk turns with the knob (because the nubs and indentations fit together) taking pressure off the throat adjustment lever, thus allowing the user to open or close the throat.  The nickel plated screw holding the knob also threads through the disk into a boss in the front section of the sole.  So, just by twisting the knob counter clockwise to loosen, and clockwise to tighten, no tools are needed and adjustment is easy.  Here’s where doing some research is helpful before buying one of these……Know that the front knob, the cast nickel plated disk, and the throat adjustment lever are all unique to the #62.  The same can also be said of the rear tote.  Notice how short its foot is when compared to a standard tote take from a #5 jack plane.  The foot is short intentionally, so that it doesn't interfere with the iron adjustment mechanism/screw.  On most other block plane designs, the iron adjustment is at the very rear of the tool, and there's nothing nothing behind it to obstruct its use.  Don't buy a #62 that's damaged in any way, and/or is missing any parts.  Individual parts for a #62 are tough to come by!  If you're going to spend the money, get one that's 100% complete.  Don't fool yourself into thinking that the parts will be easy to find.

The #62 is theoretically one of the best planes Stanley ever made in terms of its intended functionality.  The trouble is that it was too fragile to stand up to the test of time.   Stanley produced the #62 from 1905 to 1942.  The example depicted below was probably manufactured somewhere around 1923.

Jim C.             
« Last Edit: March 29, 2015, 08:26:49 AM by Jim C. »
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Online Jim C.

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Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #578 on: March 28, 2015, 11:00:20 PM »
Stanley #62 continued:

I wanted to add a couple pictures of the fragile area around the throat, just so everyone is clear about where to look for cracks, chipping, and damage.  Sometimes the damage is plainly evident, while other times it's not so easy to see, and then a good idea to closely examine the throat with the magnifying glass you have in your "kit." (Remember that?) 

Jim C.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2015, 08:18:53 AM by Jim C. »
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Online Jim C.

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Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #579 on: April 27, 2015, 06:10:50 PM »
Hi Everyone,

I hope you've been well.  Sorry I haven't posted lately.  A few weeks back my computer asked me to "upgrade" something and I said "okay." Well, whatever happened has me baffled, because now I have absolutely no clue how to resize photos.  I'm trying to resize the photos because they're too big for the established parameters of the website.  Anyway, I recently enlisted some expert help, so hopefully I'll be back to posting (with photos) very soon.  Thanks for your patience.

Jim C.   
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Offline Papaw

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Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #580 on: April 27, 2015, 06:28:08 PM »
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Offline Bill Houghton

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Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #581 on: April 27, 2015, 06:38:12 PM »
Anyway, I recently enlisted some expert help, so hopefully I'll be back to posting (with photos) very soon.  Thanks for your patience.

Jim C.
And is your expert help under the age of 16?  That seems typical these days.  Young whippersnappers.

Offline donald_wa

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Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #582 on: April 29, 2015, 06:30:21 PM »
About those Stanley #62's. They were designed primarily for end grain work so you didn't really make a true shaving, hence you shouldn't have a problem with grain raising to possibly crack the thin part. We all know it only takes one time to take a shortcut and use this plane because it's the one that is handy. There is really no use in spending big bucks for a bad(cracked) #62 if you're looking for a user. Lee Valley has an excellent low angle Jack plane for a reasonable price. They also sell steeper angle blades and toothing blades.

Online Jim C.

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Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #583 on: April 30, 2015, 08:17:30 PM »
About those Stanley #62's. They were designed primarily for end grain work so you didn't really make a true shaving, hence you shouldn't have a problem with grain raising to possibly crack the thin part. We all know it only takes one time to take a shortcut and use this plane because it's the one that is handy. There is really no use in spending big bucks for a bad(cracked) #62 if you're looking for a user. Lee Valley has an excellent low angle Jack plane for a reasonable price. They also sell steeper angle blades and toothing blades.

Hi donald,

Thanks for stopping by.  Yes, the #62 is just a big block plane designed for end grain, but like other more traditional looking, smaller block planes, woodworkers will use a #62 for all sorts of applications to include cutting long grain.  It happens all the time, and as we know, some applications caused them to crack.  I avoid using a vintage Stanley for that reason alone.  I'd never forgive myself if I cracked one.  Instead, I have a Lie Nielsen #62 that I use all the time, to include cutting with the grain.  It works great and produces nice results.  It's also significantly more durable than an original Stanley, so I never worry about using it for any reason.

Jim C.   
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Online Jim C.

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Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #584 on: October 23, 2016, 10:32:01 AM »
Hello fellow hand plane enthusiasts,

Where do I even start?  I guess with an apology.  My troubles began a year or so ago with some computer difficulties that precluded me from posting photos.  That short term problem morphed into a long term (and unexcused) absence.  I'm not entirely sure why, but I guess I needed a break.  During the past year, I got a new computer which I'm getting better at using, and continued to add to my hand plane collection.  Somewhere right about the time I last posted here, my interest in old Craftsman =V= era hand tools went through the roof.  I'm not entirely sure I know why that happened either, but it did.  I got on this Craftsman teardrop ratchet kick that almost entirely dominated my OCD motivated tool collecting tendencies.  Collecting ratchets evolved into collecting wrenches and all other Craftsman brand =V= era mechanics tools (sockets, etc., etc.). That's a whole different story..... Anyway, I do intend to start posting here again.  I'm gonna try to pace myself a little too.  I hope you'll accept my apology.  I've included a photo (to make sure I can post them) of the Stanley #112 scraper.  It's a great plane.  Stay tuned.

Jim C.   
« Last Edit: October 23, 2016, 10:57:45 AM by Jim C. »
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