Author Topic: Hand Planes  (Read 324535 times)

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Offline Bill Houghton

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Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #585 on: October 23, 2016, 11:09:54 AM »
No need to apologize, Jim.  Your series has been great, and I'm looking forward to some more; but I always understand people to be making a gift with posts like yours, not meeting an obligation.

Craftsman, eh?  I'll have to look at my wrench and socket ratholes to see if I've got any Craftsman stuff from that period.

Offline Papaw

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Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #586 on: October 23, 2016, 11:28:23 AM »
Jim-Sometimes we  just have to step back and regroup. No need to apologize.
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Offline gibsontool

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Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #587 on: October 23, 2016, 02:40:59 PM »
Welcome back Jim, good to hear your still out there. As the others said, no need to apologize. I've always enjoyed your posts and am looking forward to seeing more. Don't feel pressured, do them at your pace.

Offline mikeswrenches

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Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #588 on: October 23, 2016, 02:52:15 PM »
Hi Jim, Glad to see you back. You have been missed for sure. I've always enjoyed your articles on the different Stanley planes.

I managed to get a No. 62, a 10 1/2, a 45, a 55, an A5, an A6, and a boatload of different block planes this summer. And I almost forgot the no. 46.

Mike
Check out my ETSY store at: OldeTymeTools

Offline Lewill2

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Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #589 on: October 23, 2016, 06:11:29 PM »
Jim, I'm with the others glad to see you back and I also look forward to additional posts. Bird might have a few questions on her tool haul from this years Donnelly open house auction. She got another truck load to sort and sell.

Offline Jim C.

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Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #590 on: October 23, 2016, 09:15:00 PM »
Thanks guys!  The messages are much appreciated.  I'm looking forward to talking hand planes with you again and seeing any additions you've made to your collections during the past year or so.  Okay, let's get going.  I had to check the index to see where I left off.  Just to re-cap, I never really had a plan or specific road map regarding the direction of this thread.  Nothing much more than all hand planes all the time.  Where ever the conversation takes us is where we're going.  Anyway, between going on a SERIOUS Craftsman =V= tool buying binge, and churning out a couple more projects in the shop, I managed to add a few more planes to my collection.  There's still a lot more planes to talk about.  One of the planes I found myself using very recently was actually a scraper.  If you go back and take a look, we talked a little about scrapers earlier in the thread.  Stanley being Stanley, they made several versions over the years, some of which were very common and simple in design, and a few that are more complex (but still useful) and among some of the most rare and difficult tools to find as a collector and/or user.  Scrapers are great tools for smoothing irregular grain that swirls, changes direction and often leads to tear out and headaches.  Some projects look great with straight grain and clean lines, while others with unique characteristics in the wood are very desirable.  If you're having trouble with smoothing ornery grain, try a scraper.  The iron on a scraper requires a that a burr be created on its edge for it to cut properly.  The technique to make that burr involves a few simple steps and a couple basic hand tools to include a small flat file, hand saw jointer, a sharpening stone and a burnisher.  I'd love to say that I have some easy method for rolling out a burr on a scraper, but I don't.  It takes a little time and practice.  The first time I tried it, I referred exclusively to Garrett Hack's description, illustrations and photographs, all found in Chapter 9 of his GREAT book entitled, "The Hand Plane Book."  Mr. Hack's instructions are clear and easy to follow.  If you're interested, check out his book, that's where I learned how to make a nice burr on a scraper.

Stanley #112:

I know I said we were going to talk about scrapers in this post, but the tool depicted below still somewhat resembles a traditional bench plane.  Well, that's true, but it is a scraper.  Actually, it may be the single best scraper ever made by any manufacturer.  Notice how the iron is mounted in the plane's frog, well forward of ninety degrees.  In order for that burr to work, the angle of the iron is important.  Since a good burr sort of curls back toward the iron itself, the iron must be tilted forward past ninety degrees, and MUCH further forward than the forty five to fifty five degrees most irons are bedded at on standard bench planes.  If you take a look at the photo below, you'll see that the frog is captive on a pin that extends across the plane's main body.  That's the pivot point that allows for fine adjustments forward and back so that burr is exactly at the perfect angle for producing lace like shavings on ANY crazy/difficult grain, as well as straight grain.  The engineers at Stanley created a very simple but effective iron adjustment mechanism that's easy to operate, allowing the user to lock the iron in place at the perfect position by means of two knurled nuts mounted on a threaded rod.  No matter what the burr angle is, the plane can be adjusted to get the precise cut desired.  The other huge advantage in using a scraper plane versus a simple scraper card is the elimination of hand fatigue and the burning of one's thumbs.  On small workpieces, a scraper card is probably still the way to go, but on a medium to large flat workpiece, some sort of mechanical "holder" like the #112 makes all the difference between suffering and absolute pleasure.  Shop time should be fun.

After acquiring a few basic bench planes and block planes, I'd very seriously consider something more than a simple card scraper.  Even the common Stanley #80 scraper, discussed in a prior post, is a step up and highly recommended.  Still, if you're thinking about working on table tops and large slabs for instance, the #112 is the way to go.  Stanley produced the #112 between 1885 and 1943.  The plane depicted below was probably manufactured at some point right around 1922 - 1925.  Back in the day, a craftsperson could also outfit the #112 with toothed irons that were very handy for veneer work.  The toothed irons came with 22, 28 and 32 teeth per inch (tpi).  Original Stanley tpi irons are VERY rare.  I've seen several #112 irons with and without Stanley trademarks.  Obviously, an iron with a trademark is more desirable to collectors.  The #112 isn't unusually rare, but I also don't see them at garage/estate sales or flea markets.  They were used by cabinet makers and those who were engaged in fine woodworking.  The average "do it yourselfer" probably wouldn't have a need for a #112, or more likely would have settled for a scraper card and possibly a #80 model at most.  My grandfather was a handy guy, and I do recall him using a card scraper occasionally on various large (remembering a basement bar top) and small (remembering doll furniture) projects.  He was extremely frugal too.  It wasn't in his DNA to buy "luxury tools."  In his mind, a #80 would have been a luxury, and a #112, well, simply out of the question.  That bar top would have been a perfect project for the #112.  Anyway, in terms of user tools, the the #112 is still relatively affordable and generally available.  In my opinion, the #112 should be on most woodworkers top twelve list of planes to own and use.  In future posts, I'll show you a few Stanley scrapers that are better left to the collectors.

Finally, thanks again for your kind comments.

Jim C.                             
« Last Edit: September 24, 2019, 09:46:13 PM by Jim C. »
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Offline Jim C.

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Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #591 on: October 23, 2016, 09:59:03 PM »
No need to apologize, Jim.  Your series has been great, and I'm looking forward to some more; but I always understand people to be making a gift with posts like yours, not meeting an obligation.

Craftsman, eh?  I'll have to look at my wrench and socket ratholes to see if I've got any Craftsman stuff from that period.

Thanks Bill...... Yes, Craftsman =V= tools.  It was a buying binge that bordered on recklessness.  Absolutely insane.  I can't even say for sure what triggered it.  It was literally a one year "buying everything in sight" binge.  When I started thinking about seeking out professional counseling, I knew I had to slow down.   :embarrassed:  I'll eventually post a few pictures in the Craftsman =V= tools thread.

Jim C. 
« Last Edit: October 23, 2016, 10:06:30 PM by Jim C. »
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Offline Jim C.

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Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #592 on: October 23, 2016, 10:03:38 PM »
Hi Jim, Glad to see you back. You have been missed for sure. I've always enjoyed your articles on the different Stanley planes.

I managed to get a No. 62, a 10 1/2, a 45, a 55, an A5, an A6, and a boatload of different block planes this summer. And I almost forgot the no. 46.

Mike

Like I always said Mike, let's see what you have.  You picked up a bunch of high end stuff.  Post a few pictures, tell us where you found them, etc.  Sounds like you went on a binge of your own!!

Jim C.
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Offline Jim C.

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Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #593 on: October 25, 2016, 12:04:05 PM »
Hi All,

In my recent post pertaining to the Stanley#112 scraper plane, I initially left out a few tidbits at the end of the write up regarding my grandfather, which I have since gone back and included in the #112 post above.  When I was writing the post, I had some recollection of my "gramps" building a bar in his basement.  This would have been in the mid to late 1960s.  I was a grade schooler at the time.  As I was writing, I had flashes of him scraping that solid oak bar top by hand using a scraper card.  His thumbs must have been on fire from the friction.  The boards he used were face joined and glued together leaving their edges exposed as the top surface.  It was kind of like a butcher block, only instead seeing exposed end grain, it was edge grain.  (I'm 100% sure the boards he used were salvaged from pallets he saved from the local grocery store dumpster. Like I said, he was very frugal.) Essentially the bar top was a big lamination, so after the final glue up, there must have been high spots and low spots, some of which he removed and smoothed with a scraper card.  Making that sort of lamination must have resulted in grain going in every direction imaginable from one board to the next.  Traditional smoothing with a bench plane may have resulted to tear out under those circumstances.  Anyway, I checked my recollections with my parents, and my mom was able to find one old black and white photo of my grandfather, engaged in what appears to be him hand sanding the bar top with a sanding block.  In the corner of the photo on the bar top, almost out of the frame, is what looks like a scraper card.

Okay, but then I got to thinking, Stanley discontinued the #112 about twenty years earlier.  Would my gramps have even known such a tool existed?  Even if he had, how would he have gotten access to one?  There was no internet available to track one down, and if he didn't know anybody who had one to loan, he was out of luck.  Still, the #80, which was a great improvement over a standard scraper card, was available well into the 1980s.  In the 1960s, he could have gone to any local hardware store and bought one..... but I don't think he did.  After he died, I went through his tools and didn't find a #80 or even a scraper card anywhere in his tiny basement shop.  The point is, he seemed to know the value and utility of a simple scraping tool on wood, and that when sharpened and used properly, it could produce some very nice results.

Jim C.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2016, 10:16:23 AM by Jim C. »
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Offline Jim C.

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Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #594 on: October 29, 2016, 10:04:41 AM »
Hi All,

You know, while planning my next addition to the thread, I got to thinking that while discussing the #112 I really didn't discuss its availability and cost.   I sort of skimmed over it, but didn't give it the time it deserved.  This is a great tool to have, and again, since I personally believe it should be in every serious (or even kind of serious) woodworker's USER arsenal, I thought I better cover this matter.  Several manufacturers made a version of the #112 over the years, to include Stanley, Sargent, and currently Lie-Nielsen.  There may have been others.  Like I said earlier, it's not a plane that I've ever seen at a garage sale or flea market.  Original Sargent versions are not common.  When I do see them, they're pricey.  I see a lot more Stanleys at tool meets and advertised in online auctions.  As a matter of fact, I saw a couple Stanleys online last night.  What I've noticed is that top quality "user" condition Stanley 112s are approximately the same price, or a little less in most cases, than the currently manufactured  Lie-Nielsen version.

While I don't consider the Stanley #112 to be a rare plane, I do catagorize it somewhere between scarce and common, leaning just a little toward scarce.  A lot of times, original vintage tools such as this generally seem to cost more than their currently manufactured Lie-Nielsen cousins.  For the experience and pleasure of using such a tool, I'd recommend Lie-Nielsen for their immediate availability and cost savings.  In this particular instance I'd say otherwise.  Unless you need a #112 right now, I'd search for an original Stanley.  I believe a nice Stanley "user" can be had for less than the cost of a Lie-Nielsen, and they are still relatively available.  Do your homework, know what you're looking at, and make an informed purchase.  Remember, I'm talking about a nice user quality plane.  A top collector quality plane will exceed the cost of a Lie-Nielsen.  The reason I'm going into this kind of detail regarding the 112's availability, cost, etc., is for the simple reason that this is one to own and use out in your shop.  I also think the original Stanley's that I've seen as of late are priced right.

Jim C.  (Who's possibly beating a dead horse)
« Last Edit: November 12, 2016, 07:40:05 AM by Jim C. »
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Offline Jim C.

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Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #595 on: October 30, 2016, 08:56:30 PM »
I’ve mentioned more than once that I often receive old hand planes and tools from family, friends, co-workers, neighbors, etc.  It happens more than one would think.  Some of the tools I receive take very little effort to make useable again, while others are lost causes.  I always appreciate getting those donations, and can’t tell you how many times I’ve heard, “This belonged to my dad…..”  or, “This was my grandfather’s…….”  In those instances, I really make an effort to save those planes and make them usable again, if possible.  I guess I appreciate their sentimental value to the donor, but then also wonder why they’re giving the plane up in the first place.  Who knows?  More than once, I’ve rehabbed a donated plane and tried to return it to the donor saying something like, “Try it out, your dad might like that.” or “Maybe a grandchild would like to have this.”  On every such occasion, the donor is happy that the tool ended up with someone who would appreciate it.  (I actually received a 1947 Delta table saw under similar conditions……which started my love for vintage Delta woodworking machinery.  That’s another story.)  Anyway, the plane depicted below was one of those, “This belonged to my dad.” planes.  The donor was actually a man who attends Sunday mass with my parents.  According to my dad, the man told him the plane “doesn’t cut worth a damn” (hardly church talk) and “it might be missing a few parts.”

When I got the plane, it was obviously missing its lever cap (which had been replaced by an ill fitting section of ¼” thick steel bar stock), the iron was extremely dull, and the rear tote was cracked.  Of course it didn’t cut worth a damn (darn).  I studied the plane a little and came to the conclusion that it was worthy of a rehab and an attempted return to the donor.  After figuring out what I had, the first order of business was finding a period correct, patina matching lever cap.  That took a while, but I did manage to track one down thanks to eBay.  I didn’t want to spend a lot of money, but for about $12 (which included shipping costs), I got an original part from the correct era, with just the right amount of “character” to match the rest of the plane's physical/cosmetic condition.  I was pretty happy about that.  The rear tote presented another problem.  There was a clean through and through crack right at the base of the tote.  Finding good front knobs and rear totes for Stanley planes can be tough and usually expensive.  Finding “original wood” for less common Millers Falls planes was harder than I thought it would be.   I couldn’t find one.  Still, based on the nature of the crack, I thought I had a good chance to repair it, particularly since no one had attempted to fix it in the past.  That was lucky.

Over the years I’ve seen some botched hand plane tote repairs.  They’re frequently ugly and usually don’t hold up to normal use.  Once a repair attempt has been made, it’s a hard thing to undo it and try it again. Many times, the "fix" is worse than the break itself.  After glue gets into the wood’s grain, the pores are sealed.  Future gluing attempts will be almost futile and provide a weak bond at best.  In this instance, with such a clean break and no previous gluing efforts to contend with, I carefully spread glue on both sides of the broken tote and clamped the pieces together for twenty four hours.  The trick is to make sure both pieces realign perfectly and don’t move during the clamping process.  After the glued dried, I drilled two strategically placed holes into the bottom of the tote, past the break, and inserted (glued in) two small oak dowels.  That does the trick and adds a lot more strength and stability to the repair.

So, after about a month of fooling around with the plane, I returned it to my dad, asking that he offer it back to the man at church.  The following Sunday, my dad made the offer, but the guy wouldn't take it.  According to my dad, the man thought the plane would be in better hands if it stayed with me.  Okay......  I'm not going to argue. 

Millers Falls 14” jack plane:

Millers Falls was one of Stanley’s competitors.  I can’t say that I’m very familiar with Millers Falls tools.  The plane itself seems to be well made and capable of doing an honest day’s work.  Based on a little research I did, the plane shown below is on the higher end of the Millers Falls product line.  A version of this plane was offered by Millers Falls between 1929 and 1978.  The plane shown below is a Type 3 and was likely manufactured at some point between 1941 and 1949.  It does have some telltale features that lead me to believe it was manufactured during WWII.  Most notably, its cutting iron adjustment screw is made of steel, versus brass, which was used on pre and post WWII versions of the plane.  Also, threaded rods and cylindrical brass nuts, used to attach the front knob and rear tote to the plane’s main body, were replaced by blued steel slotted head screws.  The plane was also originally equipped with a hinged lever cap (which was missing when I initially received the plane).  I’m not sure what the hinge was designed to do.  Perhaps it provided better contact across the iron preventing/reducing chatter during use, or maybe it took stress off the weak point of the lever cap itself, preventing the cap from cracking if over tightened.  I’ve seen more than one lever cap that was cracked and repaired due to over tightening.  At some point after 1936, Millers Falls started stamping the length of the plane’s sole on its left exterior cheek.  (see photo below)  Although I don’t collect Millers Falls planes, I like this one and plan to test it out this winter.  I have a couple projects in mind for it.  I'll let you know how it cuts.....stay tuned.

Jim C.             
« Last Edit: November 06, 2016, 08:48:43 AM by Jim C. »
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Offline Bill Houghton

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Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #596 on: November 02, 2016, 09:10:50 PM »
Jim,

As to the 112, I have no experience with Lee Valley's version of this plane, but their tools are respected; and the LV scraping plane is $55 cheaper than Lie-Nielsen's.  See http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?p=48431&cat=1,41182,68491 for a description.

Offline Jim C.

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Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #597 on: November 03, 2016, 09:05:51 PM »
Hi Bill,

Thanks for stopping by and adding a link to the Lee-Valley (LV) site.  I guess I should start by saying that I've never owned or used a Veritas hand plane.  Everything I've read about Veritas planes has been generally positive.  After thinking about it for a while, I started to ask myself why I have zero experience with Veritas planes.  I have a few other LV hand tools that I'm very happy with.  So why no Veritas hand planes?  They've been around for years, but I've never had any inclination to pick one up and try it out.  I guess there's a reason for that.....

It's no secret that I'm a hardcore Stanley collector/user.  I like Sargent Autosets a lot.  If given a choice I'd choose to use a vintage plane most of the time.  I have a couple Lie-Nielsen planes that I'm really fond of too.  So what about those Veritas planes?  Although I hesitate to say this, knowing full well that it might be the dumbest reason ever, it boils down to simple aesthetic appeal.  Seriously, I really don't like the visual appearance of Veritas hand planes.  I guess they deviate from the classic style of the original Stanleys just enough to turn me off.  Like I said, I've read and heard a lot of good things about LV/Veritas planes, however, being honest with myself, and you, I don't like how they look.  That's it.

The old Stanleys are things of beauty in my eyes.  That certainly might not be true in someone else's opinion.  It's just a matter of personal preference.  In terms of currently manufactured planes, that might be why I'm still drawn to Lie-Nielsen made planes.  They just seem to more faithfully follow the classic Stanley lines and details.

Even after honestly writing this reply (and feeling dumb about it), I had some reservations about actually posting it. I most certainly don't want to alienate Veritas hand plane owners/users from stopping by and/or posting in the thread.  I also don't want to discourage anyone from trying out a Veritas plane.  As much as I appreciate a good tool that performs at or above my expectations, I guess I've been subconsciously judging them on their eye appeal too.

Jim C.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2016, 10:10:39 AM by Jim C. »
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Offline Bill Houghton

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Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #598 on: November 05, 2016, 11:32:51 AM »
You are not alone in your reaction to the aesthetics of Veritas planes; others feel that way too.  I have no affiliation with Lee Valley, other than as a customer (except that they started making aftermarket spokeshave irons at my suggestion, and I got two irons as a thank you for the idea).  I've never had a lot of confidence in their bench plane design; it seems like a weak design.  I have their plow plane, and like it a lot; the look stopped mattering after I used it the first time.

But I do like the old Stanley planes, and most of my planes are Stanleys, with a few Sargents thrown in (the Sargent dado plane is a superior design to the Stanley, for instance).  When I win the lottery and can build a bigger shop and then stock it with whatever tools I want regardless of price, I might buy some LN and LV planes.

Offline Jim C.

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Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #599 on: November 05, 2016, 01:29:40 PM »
Hi Bill,

After I posted my comments about Veritas planes, I went to the Lee Valley website and took a closer look at their plane offerings. Thinking that I might see things a little differently this time, and feeling like I shouldn't be so close minded for a silly shallow reason, I spent some time checking out LV Veritas planes.  Maybe I'd see things I hadn't seen before.  Well, to make a long story short, I came away feeling the same, if not more committed to my original comments.  I can't get past their visual appearance.  As good as the Veritas planes may cut/function, I have no real desire to buy one strictly because I really dislike the way they look.

Part of the fun of woodworking is the process and tools I use in attempting to create something that I'm satisfied with at the end of the project.  I love using old classic tools.  Not just hand planes, but any old tool.  That feeling has even strongly influenced the machines I use.  Maybe it's the connection to the past.  Maybe it's the perceived quality I think exists in old USA made machinery and tools.  There's definitely an enormous sense of satisfaction in finding an old tool, cleaning/rehabilitating it, and then using it after decades and decades of neglect/inactivity. I guess a lot of that initial attraction is visual.  It is for me anyway.  Can I see myself using that tool?  What about it makes me want to hold it in my hand?  I'm not really a Millers Falls collector, but even when I look at that Millers Falls #14 I discussed above, I want to pick it up.  I want to rehab it, resharpen its iron.  I want to try out a plane that was sitting dormant for the last 60+ years.  There's a basic visual appeal.  Unfortunately I don't get that same attraction to the "funky sort of modern looking kind of retro based design" I see in the Veritas planes.  I could keep rambling but I'm sure you get the point.  Anyway......

As for your collection of planes, I'd love to see what you have.  And no need to ever minimize the nature or contents of your collection.  The old Stanleys and Sargents are GREAT tools!  Although I do have a few Lie-Nielsens planes which also produce nice results, my ultimate preference is the old school stuff.  Many times when I mention LN planes, I'm doing so in an effort to at least point out another option, particularly when the "old school" Stanleys and Sargents are too expensive/fragile/unavailable, etc.  Thanks for your comments.  Like I've said in the past, I'm not always sure who's reading this thread or how they feel about the things I'm writing.  Any feedback at all is much appreciated, so thanks again and stay tuned.

Jim C.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2016, 03:36:50 PM by Jim C. »
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