Author Topic: Hand Planes  (Read 321494 times)

0 Members and 4 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Jim C.

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1065
Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #345 on: May 28, 2014, 08:47:41 PM »
Strik9,

Like I said earlier, "well done." I hope you'll continue posting more here about the planes you make, and include some photos too.  I'd really be interested in seeing and reading more about the process you go through to make one.  Maybe you could do a detailed writeup with some step-by-step photos showing the construction process.  ????Maybe????  Give it some thought.  I think we'd like to see how you do it.  Thanks again for showing us your hand crafted planes!  I'm hoping to see more.

Jim C.
       
Our Go-To Type Study Member

Offline strik9

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 228
Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #346 on: May 28, 2014, 09:49:13 PM »
   You're in luck Jim.    I have one more planned that fixes the tight throat problem these three have.   And after that I'm going to spend a few years trying to wear them out.   I really don't need 3 dozen no. 4 planes!

   Its a pretty crude cut and glue process really, but it did take a while to work out a few details too.    ScottG could make one 10X better with mother of pearl inlays while he slept!!!
The only bad tool is the one that couldn't finish the job.  Ironicly it may be the best tool for the next job.

Offline Jim C.

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1065
Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #347 on: May 28, 2014, 09:55:27 PM »
   You're in luck Jim.    I have one more planned that fixes the tight throat problem these three have.   And after that I'm going to spend a few years trying to wear them out.   I really don't need 3 dozen no. 4 planes!

   Its a pretty crude cut and glue process really, but it did take a while to work out a few details too.    ScottG could make one 10X better with mother of pearl inlays while he slept!!!

I'd still like to see how you do it if you're up for taking a few pictures and writing about the process.  I'd also like to see a writeup on making planes from Scottg too.  I can never get too much of this stuff and the point is to learn more from one anothers experiences using, making, and collecting hand planes.

Jim C.
Our Go-To Type Study Member

Offline Branson

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3643
Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #348 on: May 29, 2014, 08:52:12 AM »
>Great writeup Branson!  I'm learning a lot about Stiletto tools!  How about a picture or two of that block plane? 

Thanks for the compliment.  I might be able to get a photo sometime today.  I'll try to get a photo of the Baker smoothing plane, too.

Offline Jim C.

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1065
Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #349 on: June 07, 2014, 11:16:59 AM »
In today’s addition to the thread, I thought I’d feature a very unique block plane and talk a little bit about authenticating and approximating the age of a plane based on its physical clues.  We’ve talked a little bit about this in the past, and the featured plane is a nice representation of what a collector might be looking for when considering a plane.

Stanley #140:

From a pure utility standpoint, this block plane seems to incorporate some nice features that might make it a worthy addition to one’s woodworking tool arsenal.  Just looking at it, the #140 basically appears to be like many other common block planes.  From a distance, its length, width, styling (nickel plating) and configuration all make it appear to be a higher end block plane that’s similar to others of its time.  Upon closer inspection however, one will notice that the #140 is a little more than a common block plane.  With its skewed iron and removable right side wall, the #140 is somewhat more versatile than the common block plane.  I like the skewed iron for its ability to slice fine shavings from end grain.  By removing the plane’s steel right sidewall, it can quickly be converted into a rabbet plane.  That could be a handy feature.  The left sidewall casting is significantly thicker, thus adding physical stability and integrity when using the plane to cut rabbet joints.  The nickel plated pressure cap is unique to the plane, having its own mini sidewall that provides a bearing surface against the shoulder of a rabbet joint.  Some thinking went into the design of this tool. Although it borders on being a contraption of sorts, the potential utility is there, and in certain circumstances, it might be the right tool for the job.

Stanley produced the #140 from 1895 to 1943.  It’s not one of the more common block planes that I’ve seen.  In terms of styling, it’s probably one of my favorites.  It’s prominent nickel plated pressure cap, skewed iron, and large iron adjusting wheel at the rear of the plane certainly entice me to want to pick the tool up and simply study its curves and angles.  To me, it’s an attractive plane, and that’s really why I wanted one for my non-working collection.   That being said, I had to find the right one, and it took some time.  Like so many of Stanley’s planes, their parts were interchangeable from one era to the next.  For instance, if a particular plane was used frequently its iron would be sharpened, honed, used, and eventually need to be replaced.   A replacement iron would most likely have a later trademark on it.  That wouldn’t even remotely affect the plane’s ability to get the job done, but from a serious collector’s standpoint, well, what can I say? 

When I’m on the hunt for a plane that I want to add to my non-working collection, I’m very particular about what the plane needs to incorporate in terms of originality, completeness and condition.  I’m looking for a showpiece that as closely as possible depicts the tool’s physical state the day it left the factory.   Planes, just like any old tools, are very difficult to find in NOS (New Old Stock) condition.  The rarity of the tool also plays a part in my decision to buy or keep looking.   As always, knowing what to look for prior to buying is paramount.  Once a plane has passed my initial damage (loss of finish, dings, cracks, repairs, missing/replaced/incorrect parts, etc.) inspection, I move on to the more technical/subtle inspection.  This is where I decide to make an offer on the plane or not.  One of the main issues I keep in mind when buying a collector quality plane is the age of the plane’s INDIVIDUAL parts.  I want to see parts from the same era, and patina on those parts that’s evenly distributed and of the same color on the bare castings.  Very often, individual parts are assembled and then machined as a unit.  Do the grinding/machine marks on both individual pieces match?  If they don’t’ there’s a good chance that those pieces were from two different planes.  On early planes, I want to see foundry marks on parts that are the same, indicating that they were produced during the same time period.  I look for patent dates and trademark stamps on various individual parts that support (or conflict with) the age of the other parts when taken as a whole.

The #140 depicted below is an early Type 2 and was most likely produced between 1899 and 1902.  The patent date (11/6/1894) on the removable right sidewall was only found on the early versions of the plane (usually prior to approximately 1905).  The cutting iron bears the arched trademark most commonly used by Stanley from 1890 to 1910.  In the exploded parts view photo below (photo 6), notice a mark on the inside bottom of the plane’s main casting in the center, just forward of the of the iron’s nickel plated adjustment seat.  That’s a foundry mark, and it is the letter “B.”  Now take a look at the close up photo depicting the bottom of the pressure cap.  See the “B” foundry mark again?  Stanley used the B foundry mark between 1899 and 1902.  Based on those clues, I can confidently say that the plane’s main casting, pressure cap, iron, and removable right side wall were all produced at some point between 1899 and 1905, and are probably all original to each other.  Still I look for other details.  Based on doing some research, I know the two little screws that hold the removable right sidewall in place were ALWAYS flat head slotted screws with vertical knurling.  Anything else would be a replacement.  Finally, I mentioned taking a look at the fit of mating machined parts.  The #140’s removable sidewall was machined while attached to the right side of the plane.  When the toe and heel of the plane were ground to shape, the removable right side wall was also ground.  That grinding process created a sharp burr at the front and back edges of the removable right sidewall.  Although it may be difficult to see in the photo below, the grinding marks on the main casting match perfectly with the marks that carry over to the removable right sidewall.  The patina between the parts also appears to be consistent.  That's basically how I evaluate a plane before I add it to my non-working collection.  The plane depicted below came my way in 2007. 

Jim C.                 
« Last Edit: June 09, 2014, 02:33:54 PM by Jim C. »
Our Go-To Type Study Member

Offline Branson

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3643
Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #350 on: June 08, 2014, 09:43:00 AM »
Saw one of these back in the '80s.  Immediately wanted one, but never saw one again.  It wasn't that I didn't buy it -- it belonged to a co-worker and I knew better than to try to talk him out of it.  So I just drooled every time he brought it out to use in the shop.  Grrrrr.

Offline Jim C.

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1065
Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #351 on: June 08, 2014, 10:59:10 AM »
Hi Branson,

Thanks for stopping by!  I do see #140s occasionally at old tool swap meets and auctions.  They're available at online auctions too.  I ended up with the example shown above after several years of searching.  I would have liked one in its original box, but this one came up for sale and I knew that it was the best I had seen up to that point in time, so I went for it.  I'm really picky about buying a collector quality tool, and I've LEARNED TO BE PATIENT.  More than once I've overpaid for a plane that I thought was in collector quality condition, only to find a MUCH better example later on down the road for the same money.  So, now I've got some really nice user quality planes that cost me more than they should have.  It's a learning experience!!!  Some times one has to learn the hard way, and there's a "tax" for being uneducated.  Anyway....

As for the #140, I'd see them around, but never in the condition I wanted for collector purposes.  Still, the sellers wanted collector quality prices for them.  Although the pictures I posted aren't great, and the detail is lost on poor lighting, etc. the plane shown, on a 1 - 10 scale, is a solid 9.  I passed on four or five that were in the 6 - 8 range because they were just too much money given their physical states of condition.  They would have made GREAT users, but not for collector quality prices. Years ago I probably would have overpaid for one of them.  I've learned, and I'm still learning.  At any given time, I have two lists of planes that I'm on the lookout for; a user list and a collector list.  To date, I'm still actively looking for a nice #140 that I can use out in the shop for a reasonable user price.  With some of these models however, even finding a nice user, without paying a "tax" can be difficult.

Jim C.  (who loves talking about old hand planes and tends to ramble)          :smiley:   
« Last Edit: June 09, 2014, 11:51:52 AM by Jim C. »
Our Go-To Type Study Member

Offline Branson

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3643
Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #352 on: June 09, 2014, 06:55:23 AM »
To date, I'm still actively looking for a nice #140 that I can use out in the shop for a reasonable user price.  With some of these models however, even finding a nice user, without paying a "tax" can be difficult.

Jim C.  (who loves talking about old hand planes and tends to ramble)          :smiley:

If I find two, I'll let you know.  The 140 always looked like an exceptionally useful plane.

Offline Bill Houghton

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2808
Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #353 on: June 09, 2014, 02:09:59 PM »
Saw one of these back in the '80s.  Immediately wanted one, but never saw one again.  It wasn't that I didn't buy it -- it belonged to a co-worker and I knew better than to try to talk him out of it.  So I just drooled every time he brought it out to use in the shop.  Grrrrr.
Is this the place to mention that, when I found the only one I've ever seen in the wild at a garage sale, I paid $2.50?  No?  Not the place?

I'm still shaking my head about that miracle price, three years later.

Offline Jim C.

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1065
Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #354 on: June 09, 2014, 02:26:24 PM »
Hey Bill,

That's not a plane one typically sees at a garage sale!  What a great find and the price was right!  Although I do envy your good fortune, I would have been more upset if you had said that you passed on it for some reason.  I'm never that lucky.  As you well know, pictures are always welcome here.  Let's see what you "stole" for $2.50.

Jim C. 
Our Go-To Type Study Member

Offline Jim C.

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1065
Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #355 on: June 09, 2014, 07:48:54 PM »
I don't know if any of you subscribe to monthy periodicals or not, but I'm a big fan of Fine Woodworking magazine.  I usually read that magazine cover to cover evey month.  I haven't missed a single one since I started reading it back at issue No. 125 (July/August 1997).  I'll bet someone here owns and/or has read every issue starting with No. 1.  I most certainly credit that magazine with contribuing to my ongoing woodworking education.  I'm constantly learning new woodworking tips and techniques, and have found myself getting better at making tight joints and more detailed "works of art." Remember, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.......

Anyway, this month's issue (August 2014 No. 241) features a pretty good article (pages 22-25) on using block planes.  The craftsman demonstrating the plane appears to be using a Lie-Nielsen #60 1/2, low angle model.  It's a quick read with lots of clear pictures, and some basic tips.  It might be worth checking out.

Jim C. 
Our Go-To Type Study Member

Offline mikeswrenches

  • Contributor
  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2002
Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #356 on: June 10, 2014, 08:23:06 AM »
Jim,

Like you, I hunted for awhile to find a really nice 140.  The one I found was also  missing the box but has all the japanning and no nickel loss.  They are indeed a neat plane.

I also have one that would make a good user.  It has all the correct parts but lots of nickel loss and probably about 50% of its japanning.  If you don't find one by the time I get back home in Nov., I would sell it.

Mike
Check out my ETSY store at: OldeTymeTools

Offline Jim C.

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1065
Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #357 on: June 10, 2014, 09:30:21 AM »
Jim,

Like you, I hunted for awhile to find a really nice 140.  The one I found was also  missing the box but has all the japanning and no nickel loss.  They are indeed a neat plane.

I also have one that would make a good user.  It has all the correct parts but lots of nickel loss and probably about 50% of its japanning.  If you don't find one by the time I get back home in Nov., I would sell it.

Mike

Thanks Mike!  Maybe we can work out a deal in November.  I don't know where you are right now, but I hope all is well. 

Jim C.
Our Go-To Type Study Member

Offline scottg

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1748
    • Grandstaffworks Tools
Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #358 on: June 13, 2014, 08:22:03 PM »
  I only ever had one chance at a 140 and it happened long ago. That one was close-to-toast though. Basically a stripped body.
  The entire philosophy of the #140 plane is hard for me to grasp.
 Seems too fragile to work without the sideplate (as a rabbit plane), for 2 seconds!
 They must be tougher than they look though. Or we'd never see any of them at all. 

 I bought a Sargent 507, the model L-N copied, and had that for years. Stronger design but no skewed iron.
 Eventually, since I didn't use the Sargent, I got hard up for money and sold it.

  My favorite rabbit planes are the #190 and 180 bevel down series.  Especially the type 1 examples.   Its not just that Stanley was more generous with the iron in the first examples, but the style is decidedly more.... there.
 
 The #90, 91, 2 ,3, and 4 bevel up planes are good users too.
 But nowhere near better enough to justify the "multiple times" increase in price that they go for.
 In my experience.
       yours Scott

Offline Jim C.

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1065
Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #359 on: June 13, 2014, 10:31:44 PM »
Hey Scottg,

Where have you been lately?  Thanks for stopping by.  The #140 works okay as a rabbet and it is pretty sturdy.  Still, I would set it for a light pass, especially on end grain just in case.  I'm a fan of the Sargent #507.  It's one of my favorites for making larger joints.  In the long run, however, more often than not, I usually reach for a Stanley #90, #92, or #93.  I like the #94 too, but that's a tough one to find in any condition.  For some reason, the #94 seems more prone to damage than any of the others in the 90 series.  I'd say that it's more scarce than a #140.  If you have a little time this weekend, maybe you could post a few photos of your #180s and #190s.  Those are some great models!

Jim C.   
Our Go-To Type Study Member