Author Topic: Hand Planes  (Read 321602 times)

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Offline Branson

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Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #510 on: December 24, 2014, 09:25:59 AM »
Thanks, Chilly, for the perspective.  I've been feeling stupid and foolish for years about the situation.
This really helped my peace of mind!

Offline Jim C.

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Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #511 on: December 24, 2014, 10:01:22 AM »
Branson said "It was very ugly.  Fortunately, the home owner was both reasonable and understanding, and agreed to a bid change to $75 per hole, and in some cases, the old stripping was so damaged by the necessary removal that those windows went back in place without."

The home owner was right to pay. Ethically and somewhat (don't know the contract particulars, but it sounds like a handshake deal) legally any unknown existing conditions are an owners problem. You, as a workman, are responsible for what you should have reasonably known when you gave the owner your quote. In other words, you bid based on normal expected conditions. The basis of your price changed. 

It would be different if you knew there was a problem and tried to gouge the homeowner after the fact. But you didn't.  You informed the owner of the changed conditions, revised your price with a reasonable adjustment, and the owner agreed to take care of their part.  It is great when both parties are honest and sincere.

Sorry for the off topic rant, Jim. But I have seen a lot of good people ( on both sides) get hurt by bad apples.  I'll send you some pics of my planes (nothing special) early 2015 to try and make it up.

Chilly

Hi Chilly,

No need to apologize.  Your comments and perspectives are always welcome here.  If they stem from a hand plane topic that was raised earlier in the thread, I don't have a problem with it.  Your recent thoughts are totally in line and related to my original weather stripping plane post and Branson's follow up post.  I highly encourage, and hope for follow up discussion, opinions, experiences, corrections, etc. if they can be even remotely connected to using, buying, collecting, selling, restoring, making, etc., etc. hand planes.  So I think you're good!  Thanks for jumping in with your thoughts!  Happy Holidays to you and your family.  Also, since you mentioned it, if you have a few pictures to post, I'm looking forward to seeing them in 2015.

Jim C.
 
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Offline Jim C.

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Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #512 on: December 24, 2014, 10:09:49 AM »
Thanks, Chilly, for the perspective.  I've been feeling stupid and foolish for years about the situation.
This really helped my peace of mind!

Maybe you're being a little hard on yourself.  My guess is the homeowner realized that he/she was still getting a fair price and a top quality finished product and was willing to pay an adjusted, equitable price for it.  I think Chilly made some good points about respective responsibilities when unforeseen circumstances arise. 

Jim C.   
« Last Edit: December 24, 2014, 02:34:03 PM by Jim C. »
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Offline Jim C.

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Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #513 on: December 25, 2014, 08:19:08 AM »
I hope you all enjoy a very Merry Christmas!

Jim C.
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Offline Jim C.

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Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #514 on: December 31, 2014, 10:46:56 PM »
Since it’s almost the New Year, I thought I’d feature a simple block plane to bring in 2015.

Stanley #15:

Yes, the #15 in honor of 2015.  This is another in the long line of block planes produced by Stanley over the years.   It’s exactly like the #9 ½ (see page 11, reply 163) but only one inch longer.  (See comparison photo below next to the #9 ½.)  The Stanley #15 was manufactured from 1876 to 1955.  It’s a solid worker.  The plane depicted below was most likely made at some point near the end of production in the 1950s.  I found it many years ago at a local garage sale.  It cost me a few dollars and for a while, it was my “go to” block plane.  As a matter of fact, for a short period of time, it might have been my only block plane.  The box is pretty beat up, but the plane itself is in good condition.  It’s not anything rare, but I’ve never seen another one in the box either.

I know that was short and sweet, but it's time to go celebrate the end of a pretty good year and the beginning of another one!  So, Happy New Year!  I hope 2015 is a great one for all of you, and I hope you’ll check in now and then.  There’s a lot more planes to feature in the year to come.  Stay tuned.....

Jim C.     
« Last Edit: December 31, 2014, 10:59:41 PM by Jim C. »
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Offline Jim C.

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Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #515 on: January 06, 2015, 02:56:54 PM »
There seems to be no end to the number of different block plane patterns produced by Stanley and their competitors throughout the years.  As I’ve said in prior posts, some were very useful and still have a place on any craftsperson’s workbench today, while others didn’t stand the test of time for various reasons.  Some just didn’t work well, while others were oddities that probably looked good on paper but fell short of the mark once produced.

Stanley #131:

This plane is a variation of Stanley’s #130 block plane.  (See page 2, reply 15 above)  As you may recall, the #130 was a double ended plane which employed an iron that had to be adjusted by hand, or with the assistance of a couple light taps from a small brass hammer.  Although not my favorite block plane to use because of its bulky size, it works well enough and is capable of producing acceptable results.  You may further recall that I mentioned the #130’s bull nose was relatively fragile.  Well, all those things that I said about the #130 also apply to the #131.  It’s a double ended block plane with one end being a bull nose (still fragile), it’s a little larger than I like a block plane to be, and it too, is capable of producing acceptable results.  Here’s the twist.  Where the #130’s iron must be adjusted manually, the #131’s iron is adjusted mechanically….. on both ends!!  A relatively ingenious yoke mechanism pivots the iron adjustment between the two fixed frogs that are part of the main body casting.  I love this plane purely for its “contraptionism.”  In terms of functionality, well, that’s a different story.  That pivoting yoke assembly, where the iron adjustment screw enters it, is VERY frequently cracked.  I tried to take a few close up photos (see below) to illustrate how the yoke is attached to the plane, how it’s supposed to function, and how it’s constructed.  As one can see, the yoke is nothing more than a small cast iron part.  That yoke tends to snap easily if just a tiny amount of extra force is applied to it.  For that single reason alone, the Stanley #131 is at the higher end of collectability, and the lower end of usability.  It’s a tough plane to find in undamaged condition.  Add the already fragile bull nose to the extremely fragile iron adjustment mechanism, and you’ve got the potential for a disaster.  In an attempt to “improve“ on its #130, Stanley actually went backwards on this one.  They created a double ended, doubly fragile block plane.  (See the last two photos for a #130/#131 side by side comparison.)

The #131 did not replace the #130 in Stanley’s product line.  The #130 was manufactured between 1884 and 1955, while the #131 was produced from 1905 to 1941.  The #131 example depicted below is a Type 2 that was most likely manufactured between 1923 and 1929.  If you run across a #131 and are thinking about buying it, take a VERY close look at the bull nose section of the main body (looking for cracks and/or repairs) and pay particularly close attention to the iron adjustment/yoke assembly (again looking for cracks and damage).  Don’t buy a #131 with the expectation of using it.  It’s really a collector tool now.  If you want the experience of using a double ended block plane, stick with the #130.  It’s certainly more durable.  Finally, when I’m out hunting for planes, or know that I’ll be in an environment where high dollar planes will be available for sale/auction, I routinely have a small flashlight and magnifying glass, among other things, in my kit so that I can give planes such as the #131 a super close inspection.  Little cracks can be hard to see without some help.  As always, do your homework, and know what to look for.

Jim C.                 
« Last Edit: January 06, 2015, 03:01:53 PM by Jim C. »
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Offline Jim C.

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Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #516 on: January 17, 2015, 04:57:38 PM »
............Finally, when I’m out hunting for planes, or know that I’ll be in an environment where high dollar planes will be available for sale/auction, I routinely have a small flashlight and magnifying glass, among other things, in my kit so that I can give planes such as the #131 a super close inspection.  Little cracks can be hard to see without some help.  As always, do your homework, and know what to look for.........               

After my last post, I got to thinking that I casually mentioned keeping a flashlight and a magnifying glass in my “kit.”  Upon reading that, maybe some of you wondered, “What kit?  What’s he talking about?”  Well, I’ll get to that in a moment.  During the course of any year, I occasionally like to go to various auctions and/or tool meets where hand planes and other old tools are available for sale.  If you’re into old tools, these events can be very exciting, and a lot of fun.  Almost immediately upon walking into a convention center or large banquet hall lined with row after row of tables filled with old tools, it’s VERY easy to get carried away, and throw all discipline out the window.  You have a “wish list” of tools that you’re looking for, you’ve done your homework, and you have some cash in your pocket.  It’s time to go hunting!  That’s how I feel every time I go to one of these events.

When I attend these functions, I usually do go with a shopping list.  I don’t always find everything on the list, but when I do find something, it’s not enough to have just done my homework and basically know what to look for on a particular plane.  That’s still VERY important, but now you’re there and that plane you’ve been looking for is actually in your hands.  The price is right, the plane looks good, and the seller seems willing to negotiate a little.  Well, this is where staying disciplined and having a “kit” comes into play.  The actual discipline boils down to not making a snap emotional decision and taking the time to use the tools in your kit.

My kit is nothing more than a few simple tools and a couple other items that take a little of the guess work and stress out of buying an old tool.  There’s no fun in buying a vintage tool to use, or as an addition to your collection, and then finding out later that it has some damage that wasn’t seen at the time of purchase, or that it’s missing a part.  Sometimes lighting isn’t great, or grime/dust/gunk can hide a crack/alteration/repair.  After suffering a couple disappointments along the way, I decided to make myself a kit.

Start out with a heavy duty, sturdy bag.  Something that was made to carry at least twenty five pounds, and is large enough to haul around a few simple inspection tools/things as well as those tools you may purchase at the event.  Notice my bag will accommodate a #6 size (18” long) bench plane.  Also make sure that it has several internal pockets for various items in your kit.  I’ve also found that a bag with a rigid bottom is easier to pack and keeps things from banging into each other.  I like a bag with a full length zipper.   It won’t open unless I open it.  Snaps can come un-done.  Things can fall out.  When I’m walking around between tables and looking at tools, my bag is zipped up.  Invest in a good bag.  It protects your kit, keeps you organized, and safeguards your purchases.

As I said earlier, a magnifying glass is a critical item.  Little tiny cracks in cast iron aren’t unusual.  Particular planes like the Stanley #131 above are known to be fragile.  Doing one’s homework and knowing where to look is just half the battle.  Do you really trust your eyes to see a tiny crack in black japanning, or in dark patina, under less than optimal lighting?  If you’re buying a user quality #9½ block plane for $10, I guess you could risk it.  If you’re going to buy a #9 block plane for $1,000 (or more), you better get out the magnifying glass and look closely at all the potential weak spots.  To be honest, I’d take the time to look BOTH planes over with equal attention to detail.  That’s where discipline comes into play.  Get in the habit of going through the same inspection routine with EVERY plane you buy.  Most times, a magnifying glass is extremely helpful in seeing what my eyes alone would have missed.  Now, add a little more illumination by shining a flashlight on the situation.  The odds of detecting a hard to see problem have just been dramatically increased.  Cracks, repairs, refinishing, etc. are usually detected with the help of both tools working together.  Some magnifying glasses have a little light built in.  Those can be handy.

Have a six inch square (at least) in your kit.  Use it to check sole flatness.  Are the sides of the plane ninety degrees perpendicular to the sole?  For planes like those in the Stanley 90 series (#90, #92, #93, #94) that matters a lot.  Those are precision tools, so the sides and soles need to be at 90 degree angles to each other.  If a longer plane, like a #7 or #8 bench plane is on your wish list, take a longer square, like a twelve inch.

No plane with more than two parts can be adequately inspected without taking it apart.  Most old planes have slotted screws holding some parts of them together.  Don’t count on the seller to have or offer you a screwdriver.  It’s good to take a few different sizes.  I can’t think of anything worse than taking apart a plane that you haven’t bought yet, and buggering up a screw head with a screwdriver that didn’t properly fit in the slot.  Some of those old screws haven’t been turned in decades.  Use the properly fitted driver, and ALWAYS ask the seller if it’s okay to disassemble the plane BEFORE you attempt it.  Upon approaching a plane, I usually ask the seller if it’s okay that I pick it up.  If it passes my initial inspection, then I’ll ask if I can take it apart for a closer look.

Zip lock sandwich bags and a sharpie marker are great for storing small parts.  If you need to take a tool apart so it fits into your bag, it’s a good idea to protect it and its associated screws, cutters, etc. from damage and/or loss.  Use the sharpie marker to label the bag with the contents inside.

Bring a small pad of paper and a pen.  When you’re looking at a lot of tools in a big banquet hall, it’s easy to forget where you saw something.  Many times I’ll look at something that interests me, I’ll put it down, and walk around a little more looking for a better example, or to just think things over.  More than once I’ve forgotten where I saw the tool, how much it cost, and/or notes about its condition, etc.  An hour or so later, after wandering around literally looking at hundreds of tools, I ask myself, “Was that plane in this row of tables?  How much was it?”  Take some notes.  For example, “Aisle 3, 2nd table on left, Stnly #4, $25”.  Later, if I’m still interested, I can go back and see if the plane is still there without trying to remember exactly where it was.  I also like to write down the name of the seller and his/her contact info after I make a purchase.  I do that for my own records (which I’ll discuss in a future post).

It’s NEVER a bad idea to have some reference materials with you.  Now it would be difficult to carry around every book, article, etc. that I have on the topic of hand planes, but a basic catalog/guide helps.  Since I mostly look for and buy old Stanley planes, I like to carry the old Stanley #34 catalog.  It gives me a general idea of what parts should be present on a particular plane, and includes exploded views.  This can be extremely helpful when looking at a plane with numerous small parts/cutters, like the Stanley #45 or #55.

Finally, I like to have few old socks in my kit.  They’re absolutely perfect for wiping away grime/dust/gunk.  They also make GREAT protective covers, particularly for block planes, small tools, and parts.  One could also slip a sock over both ends of a longer bench plane as well as over its tote.  When I buy a plane or tool, slipping it into an old sock protects it from getting any unnecessary dings/chips/dents while it’s in my bag and I’m walking around at the tool meet.

I’m sure there are other items that could go into one’s “kit.”  These are just a few of the things that I like to have in mine.  Happy hunting!

Jim C.                         
« Last Edit: January 20, 2015, 08:58:15 AM by Jim C. »
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Offline gibsontool

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Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #517 on: January 18, 2015, 09:31:21 AM »
Your first paragraph in your last post explains thinks very well and I'm sure the majority of us here feel the same way when we walk into a tool sale,yard sale, auction or whatever. I have an old Klien tool bag that I keep in my truck which has most of the items you carry. It can be kind of a pain to pack it around at a big sale but it it has stopped me from buying a few things that had flaws that weren't easy to spot with the naked eye.
    I really enjoy reading your posts. Thanks.

Offline Jim C.

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Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #518 on: January 18, 2015, 11:24:31 AM »
Hi gibsontool,

Thanks for stopping by and many more thanks for your feedback!!  It's not always easy to gauge how any particular post/topic went over with those who may be reading along.  So, your comments are most appreciated.  I'm glad to know that you're enjoying the thread, and as always, I invite you to feature here, any of the planes from your great collection.

As for having an old tool buying kit, well, I can't endorse them enough.  A kit's actual contents may vary from person to person, but a good flashlight and a magnifying glass should at least be in every buyer's pocket when attending a tool buy/sell/trade event.  The biggest "save" that I credit to my flashlight and magnifying glass occurred about five years ago when I was seriously looking at a Stanley #62 block plane.  I knew those planes were prone to cracking near their throats, but I had one in my hands that looked sound.  It wasn't a NOS mint condition plane, but still somewhere around the 95% range and worthy of a closer look.  The sole had some minor scratches and wear, but nothing that was going to spoil the deal.  Then I got out my magnifying glass and started to carefully inspect the sole.  Well, there was one little "scratch" right near the outer back edge of the throat just behind the iron.  So, I removed the pressure cap and iron so I could inspect the suspect location from the top side.  Sure enough, there in the japanning was another "scratch" in the same spot as the scratch on the plane's sole.  It was a crack for sure.  I never would have seen it without my magnifying glass.  As I recall, the plane had a $300 price tag on it.  Anyway, I carefully re-assembled it and put back on the table.  I told the seller I'd think about it and that was that.  Had I not seen the crack, I would have made the guy a serious offer, probably bought the plane, and then eventually suffered a serious bout of buyer's remorse (which I do have some experience with.)

Jim C.         
« Last Edit: January 18, 2015, 06:05:39 PM by Jim C. »
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Offline Papaw

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Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #519 on: January 18, 2015, 11:50:31 AM »
My "kit" is usually part of my camera bag, which is almost always with me. Contents change from time to time. Flashlight, tape measure, emery paper, photo loupe, etc.
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Offline Jim C.

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Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #520 on: January 18, 2015, 01:11:40 PM »
My "kit" is usually part of my camera bag, which is almost always with me. Contents change from time to time. Flashlight, tape measure, emery paper, photo loupe, etc.

Emery paper.....  Hey Papaw, why emery paper?

Jim C.
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Offline Papaw

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Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #521 on: January 18, 2015, 01:56:23 PM »
Some grunge can be taken off without disturbing the patina.
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Offline Chillylulu

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Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #522 on: January 18, 2015, 03:54:02 PM »
Jim,

I have a kit, but I need to make a couple of changes based upon some of your advice.

Biggest change: I need a bigger bag. I currently use an old, larger, laptop bag. I have never thought about using the kit bag to carry purchases in.

My bag doubles as a survey bag for work. I often need to measure old buildings where I am designing fire protection systems (sprinklers, alarms, extinguishers, standpipes, etc.) Since I don't need every tool every time, I have a short metal box I can put un-needed kit in. It fits under the back seat in my truck.

The big tip screwdriver I use has a t-handle. It was a vintage advertising give-a-way that came with other tools in an auction lot. It gives me additional leverage on harder screws and is especially handy on building access panels, which often have layers of paint over the screw heads.

I need to add a square to my kit, more good advice.

I used to have a small camera in my kit, but now I use my cell phone. I take my Nikon when I know I want a lot of pictures or higher quality pictures.

 While thinking about your suggestions, I had an idea that I think I will try. The idea is to print up a sheet of business card size cards. One side I think I will have my name and contact info, with space to put the vendor info and notes.  The other side will have space for tool particulars. Model, type, manufacturer, condition, price, date, picture number, etc.

I recieved my first (I think) Keen Kutter labeled plane last week. Pretty beefy and about the size of a #4. Corrugated sole. Pictures are in queue and waiting until I have regained hand use. Hopefully I can operate a mouse tomorrow evening, I have to see what my hand Dr. says tomorrow.

I really like this thread, by the way.  Great Job!

Chilly
« Last Edit: January 18, 2015, 03:56:55 PM by Chillylulu »

Offline Jim C.

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Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #523 on: January 19, 2015, 12:20:56 PM »
Hey Chilly,

I'm really glad that you found something of value in the "tool hunting kit" post.  Thanks a ton for the feedback.  It really helps me focus on what I might feature in the thread somewhere down the road.  Your comments are always welcome.  Sorry to hear that you injured your hand.  I hope you're back to good soon!

Jim C.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2015, 12:24:10 PM by Jim C. »
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Offline Branson

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Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #524 on: January 23, 2015, 09:33:45 AM »
Well, it happened again.  I'm going through my storage unit, getting a look at a lot of things I forgot I had (still haven't found my 40 1/2 scrub plane GRRRR).  I finally got a good look in one old carpenter's tool chest, which mostly contained wrenches and metal odds and ends.  Digging through the bottom, I found two more block planes.  They may have come with the chest.  One Stanley that I have to figure which one it is, and a slightly shorter made by Union.  Like the Stanley, it has an adjustable throat, but unlike any other I've seen, there is no adjusting lever for the throat piece.  Any information about Union block planes?  I haven't tried it out yet because the throat piece is frozen with light rust and I'm waiting for the Break Free to loosen it up.  The Stanley is just as rusty, but I managed to give it a test, and it's still sharp enough to work.