Author Topic: Early Thorsen Tools Catalog - Help date it.  (Read 4762 times)

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Offline OilyRascal

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Early Thorsen Tools Catalog - Help date it.
« on: November 01, 2013, 03:15:23 PM »
I have a early Thorsen tool catalog likely from somewhere in their first 3-6 years of production.  I would like your help in proving it's age.  I have it in a single file PDF that is 22mb.  I will need someone to host it and post a link here.
"FORGED IN THE USA" myself.  Be good to your tools!

Garden and Yard Rustfinder Extraordinaire!
http://www.papawswrench.com/vboard/index.php?topic=3717

Offline mikeswrenches

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Re: Early Thorsen Tools Catalog - Help date it.
« Reply #1 on: November 01, 2013, 04:15:11 PM »
This probably sounds kind of dumb, but can't you just upload it to the site.  That way any of us could look at it.  Or in lieu of that, how about emailing it to those of us who are interested.  Les did this with the Hilary Klein wrench photo's and it worked great.

Mike

Offline oldgoaly

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Re: Early Thorsen Tools Catalog - Help date it.
« Reply #2 on: November 01, 2013, 04:46:54 PM »
You can set up a free account on Mediafire.com
here is a link to my pedal and treadle tools http://www.mediafire.com/folder/exak576j7cxeq/Pedal_n_treadle_machines
It is advertiser supported but if you run adblocker on Firefox it does a pretty good job at that. I have about 50 "folders" sort pics by type, and there are a couple of manual or book folders. knock on wood it has been a good service. You give out a link to a group it stays till you remove it or move the file. For somethings you want to share with just a few just asked them to pm or email you and give it out that way. You can also link just one pic or file, gives you a little control over who sees it. Did I mention it's free? <grin>

A bunch of pics (4200+) of tools and project in our shoppe
https://www.facebook.com/187845251266156/photos/?tab=albums

Offline eddie hudson

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Re: Early Thorsen Tools Catalog - Help date it.
« Reply #3 on: November 02, 2013, 05:10:59 AM »
I have a early Thorsen tool catalog likely from somewhere in their first 3-6 years of production.  I would like your help in proving it's age.  I have it in a single file PDF that is 22mb.  I will need someone to host it and post a link here.

I sent a couple of catalogs to LG and he hosted them and posted the link here. I'm sure he would do the same for you.

Offline OilyRascal

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Re: Early Thorsen Tools Catalog - Help date it.
« Reply #4 on: November 02, 2013, 02:20:45 PM »
A link to the catalog LB has hosted.  I would appreciate your thoughts in its age.

http://www.mediafire.com/download/80o0t1obbfwjaiq/Thorsen+Tool+Catalogue+Early.pdf
"FORGED IN THE USA" myself.  Be good to your tools!

Garden and Yard Rustfinder Extraordinaire!
http://www.papawswrench.com/vboard/index.php?topic=3717

Offline oldgoaly

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Re: Early Thorsen Tools Catalog - Help date it.
« Reply #5 on: November 02, 2013, 02:59:29 PM »
going to guess 1929-31, last page Wheel knockoff chart
shows model T and A no mention of a V8 that was 1932
all of the manufacturers made it thru 1929 stock market crash
Nice catalog! I did not know they made autobody repair tools.
Thanks for sharing!
A bunch of pics (4200+) of tools and project in our shoppe
https://www.facebook.com/187845251266156/photos/?tab=albums

Offline kxxr

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Re: Early Thorsen Tools Catalog - Help date it.
« Reply #6 on: November 03, 2013, 10:58:40 AM »
Nice acquisition, Oily. There are more clues there than you can shake a stick at. I am going with 1929 to 1930. I noticed there are many references to the Thorsen Process, but no mention of "Techniheat" which is what they started calling it in 1931 (April, according to AA). Also, Boeing Aeronautics became United around that time, but of course there never is a "day one" on those kinds of changes. The Boeing School of Aeronautics was established in 1929, according to one reference I found, so no earlier than that. I chose the latest date as 1930 because I would think Thorsen would start using the "Techniheat" reference as soon as they came up with it. They had the process, but not the name in your catalog. By 1931, thier literature included the Techniheat name ... but not until April, according to AA. So, oldgoaly is probably more correct with his wider estimate of '29 to '31. But if I were to try to narrow it, I would leave off the 1931.
I also noticed one of the valve grinders was patented in 1928, but the patent had been applied for in 1924. If you tracked down every corporate reference mentioned in that catalog, you'd be making one hell of a contribution to the study of tool manufacturing / marketing during that early era.
As usual, the easiest part to nail down is the "no earlier than" aspect. The "no later than" side of it is far more difficult. I even researched the "Sec.384 1/2 P.L. & R." reference on the front cover. No joy there, as that is a reference to a Postal Law and Regulation citation which first appeared in the 1870s. What I could not find, was when the "1/2" was added to Section 384. If one could find out when Section 384 was ammended, it may help to narrow down the "no earlier than" side. I also looked at the alpha-numeric phone numbers on the cover but that was no help either. The transition from alpha-numeric phone numbers to all digital was a controversial battle which drug out all through the '50s and into the '60s ... so, no clues there either.
I often wonder how difficult it would be to track down the artists that created the work on these early advertising pieces. I have tried to contact the "Poster Expert" on the Antiques Roadshow to see if he could provide clues to the artist(s) that created some of the great art found on the Proto ephemera and others, but he did not see fit to reply to my query. If such information could be found, there would be another avenue of exploration. The artwork on your flyer is pretty distinctive and the originals are probably hanging in someone's living room. And, no doubt, their significance is slowly being forgotten. Judging by the similarity in styles, it may have been a small group of "go to" guys that created all of that tool art. Possibly even a single agency with which they were all involved. I may try to contact the Roadshow guy again. I think he may know who created some of the art.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2013, 04:57:34 AM by kxxr »

Offline kxxr

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Re: Early Thorsen Tools Catalog - Help date it.
« Reply #7 on: November 03, 2013, 11:13:30 AM »
P.S. Thanks, Oily for sharing your catalogs, and thanks also to LBG for getting the hosting rigged up. Much appreciated!
« Last Edit: November 03, 2013, 11:16:30 AM by kxxr »

Offline OilyRascal

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Re: Early Thorsen Tools Catalog - Help date it.
« Reply #8 on: November 03, 2013, 11:31:01 AM »
Thanks for the thoughts!

I will share this.  There was an "insert" that was acquired at the same time as the catalog.  I am not assuming the insert is original to the catalog it was paired with upon receipt to me.  The insert does make reference to the "techniheat" process and it's "Perfected April 1931" date.

Link to the insert download:
http://www.mediafire.com/?dsy46ub8vyjblt2
"FORGED IN THE USA" myself.  Be good to your tools!

Garden and Yard Rustfinder Extraordinaire!
http://www.papawswrench.com/vboard/index.php?topic=3717

Offline johnsironsanctuary

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Re: Early Thorsen Tools Catalog - Help date it.
« Reply #9 on: November 03, 2013, 01:08:51 PM »
Thanks Oily and LG.  Neat catalog. 1930 or early 31 seems like a logical guess.

As I was looking through the pages of tools, it occurred to me that Oily should make the SF Bay Craigs list Tool Listing a regular part of his daily routine. I went there and look what I found.

http://sacramento.craigslist.org/tls/4155235854.html
Top monkey of the monkey wrench clan

Offline oldtools

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Re: Early Thorsen Tools Catalog - Help date it.
« Reply #10 on: November 04, 2013, 01:09:43 AM »
Great catalog!!!  Thank you very much for sharing it with us...
Aloha!  the OldTool guy
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Offline mr.x

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Re: Early Thorsen Tools Catalog - Help date it.
« Reply #11 on: November 06, 2013, 10:59:34 AM »
I threw my 2 cents in about the date of this catalog in an April thread entitled "Thorsen dbe" or something close to that.  I guess, as already pointed out, once you get a rough range for the date based on tools present or not present, patent dates and other clues you're stuck with the problem of publishing month and even more to the point, deadline date for inclusion( ie. a  tool catalog published for any particular year would only represent the companies tools developed up to the submission deadline which obviously could have been months prior or after Jan 1st.  And beyond that, were tool companies ever able to proactively develop tool lines simultaneously with the introduction of new engines or other new products? Would a "32" catalog published in Jan.include V8 tools? what about May? I don't think this is a 29 because of the inclusion of Chevy Six specialty tools and the Boeing school date combined with a sense that a 29 would have been first year catalog and the intro would have been worded differently. I also agree with previous posters that it's pre 32 (V8) I've seen a catalog that I believe predates this one but is also not their first year which I'm guessing was a 30. I think this cat. is a 31 published before they were touting "Techniheat" I think the "31" cat. in AA is probably a 32. My world class ADD probably contributed to me missing something but this is my GUESS for now.
  It was very unselfish for the original poster to share the catalog with the forum.
 

Offline OilyRascal

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Re: Early Thorsen Tools Catalog - Help date it.
« Reply #12 on: November 06, 2013, 08:34:36 PM »
I do appreciate your comments Mr. X.  Do you have an affiliation, or association, with AA or those responsible for it?
"FORGED IN THE USA" myself.  Be good to your tools!

Garden and Yard Rustfinder Extraordinaire!
http://www.papawswrench.com/vboard/index.php?topic=3717

Offline mr.x

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Re: Early Thorsen Tools Catalog - Help date it.
« Reply #13 on: November 07, 2013, 04:13:17 AM »
Hi. that site was completely run by one guy based about 30 miles NW of Boston. He's an acquaintance of mine and I contributed what I knew of the early history of Thorsen & P&C, much of which I learned from  Bill Derville and John Derville Jr, while sitting in Bill's office at General Tool in Portland, Oregon. John Derville Sr. was best friends and a business partner of Ned Boyd when Ned was still with P&C in the 20's. But, no. I have no affiliation with the AA site, I just know the guy.