Tool Talk
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: jabberwoki on January 25, 2014, 08:47:33 PM
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Check out this post on the gazette.
http://66.171.182.251/~unclebuc/index.php?topic=20296.0
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I am not very familiar with p&c, but love to see history of old tools preserved.
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All I had to see was that they were tied in with Plomb and I was hooked. I have an old rusty metal P&C tool box that presumably held a 3/4" Drive tool set at one time. scored a P&C keychain screwdriver on ebay with an "FS" logo on the back. Have one o their 1/2" flex head ratchets that a worker in my roll chest. The rest of my P&C shares a drawer in my Proto Middle chest with the Pennens stuff. The Challenger stuff has grow n to the point it's earned its own box now.....lol
Great news BTW, can't wait to learn more about these folks.
DM&FS
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P&C also made 16" & 20" "crescent" wrenches instead of 15" & 18" -- so for those of you who want to look for oddities, those sizes are probably unique to P&C. Kinda on the same plane of oddity as the "odd number sized" KEYSTONE straight handle adjustables.
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All I had to see was that they were tied in with Plomb and I was hooked. I have an old rusty metal P&C tool box that presumably held a 3/4" Drive tool set at one time. scored a P&C keychain screwdriver on ebay with an "FS" logo on the back. Have one o their 1/2" flex head ratchets that a worker in my roll chest. The rest of my P&C shares a drawer in my Proto Middle chest with the Pennens stuff. The Challenger stuff has grow n to the point it's earned its own box now.....lol
Great news BTW, can't wait to learn more about these folks.
DM&FS
I have to see a pic of the P&C tool box!! I have one that's only missing one socket to be complete wondering if it`s the same box?
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I think it's housing my "heinz 57 3/4" drive set at the bottom of the old Craftsman roll chest in the photo in GD. I should extricate it for authenticity.
DM&FS
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I have to see a pic of the P&C tool box!! I have one that's only missing one socket to be complete wondering if it`s the same box?
Great news about the website!
Which socket do you need? I have a few that came with my 3/4 box.
(http://photos.foxgti.com/i.ashx?gallery=1013514&mid=44272312&mt=Photo&standardsize=640x480)
http://photos.foxgti.com/i.ashx?gallery=1013514&mid=44272312&mt=Photo&standardsize=1600x1200 (http://photos.foxgti.com/i.ashx?gallery=1013514&mid=44272312&mt=Photo&standardsize=1600x1200)
(http://photos.foxgti.com/i.ashx?gallery=1013514&mid=44272313&mt=Photo&standardsize=640x480)
http://photos.foxgti.com/i.ashx?gallery=1013514&mid=44272313&mt=Photo&standardsize=1600x1200 (http://photos.foxgti.com/i.ashx?gallery=1013514&mid=44272313&mt=Photo&standardsize=1600x1200)
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P&C also made 16" & 20" "crescent" wrenches instead of 15" & 18" -- so for those of you who want to look for oddities, those sizes are probably unique to P&C.
Certainly Proto offered adjustables in 20". Of course, they may have taken the idea from their P&C brand...
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that box is in much bette shape than mine.......
DM&FS
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This is the set I have and I guess I`m missing a few . What it have are 2 3/8 , 2 1/4, 2 3/16, 2 1/8,1 7/8,1 3/4, 1 13/16, 1 11/16,
1 5/8, 1 9/16, 1 1/2 , 1 7/16,1 3/8, 1 5/16, 1 1/4, 1 3/16, 15/16 and 7/8.
It`s a more modern set and I`ll like to finish it off. My 7/8 is an older style so I`ll need one of those.
I`ll post a pic of the script so you can see the style and I do have spares to trade.
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THAT'S and impressive set, my man!!!
DM&FS
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Have you dug your box out yet?
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I think it's buried out side in a pile of old tool boxes. The box that's housing my" heinz 57" 3/4" collection turned out to be an old military Snap On box, which is pretty cool in and of itself......
Be patient and when it warms up to 20 degrees or so, I'll go digging......
DM&FS
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I rarely see P&C tools around here, but I found this "lining up bar" (as the 1953 catalogue calls it) when I went to pick up some other tools last night:
(http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c180/lbgradwell/PampC1031.jpg)
(http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c180/lbgradwell/PampC1032.jpg)
The 1953 catalogue says a 103 should be 24" long and made of 3/4" stock while a 102 should be 18" and made of 5/8" stock.
This 103 is 18" long and appears to be 11/16"! I guess it's from after 1953...
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scored 3 P&C micro ignition wrenches yesterday at a rarely visited pawn shop(very little turnover in this place) along with several other brands. This guy was really into 1/4" tools....lol see the rest on the new posting. The P&C's are together in the lower right next to the Bonney...... Also represented are C-man MAC, Billings, Penncraft, Snap On Blue Point,and a nonamer,
DM&FS
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Your set looks newer than mine but I will check this weekend when I get back from vacation.
I'll also take some pictures of my 16" adjustable collection.
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I rarely see P&C tools around here, but I found this "lining up bar" (as the 1953 catalogue calls it) when I went to pick up some other tools last night:
(http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c180/lbgradwell/PampC1031.jpg)
(http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c180/lbgradwell/PampC1032.jpg)
The 1953 catalogue says a 103 should be 24" long and made of 3/4" stock while a 102 should be 18" and made of 5/8" stock.
This 103 is 18" long and appears to be 11/16"! I guess it's from after 1953...
Oh my as I wipe the druel from my shirt. That's the same logo on my 3/4 set one of their best.
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If you revisit the link at the start you can see a promo of the new web site.
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jab,
I have a P&C 3/4" drive box sporting original but faded red paint. I believe it's older than your blue box. Here's a few photos for the thread:
(http://i366.photobucket.com/albums/oo109/lauver_photos/PCToolBox2.jpg) (http://s366.photobucket.com/user/lauver_photos/media/PCToolBox2.jpg.html)
(http://i366.photobucket.com/albums/oo109/lauver_photos/PCToolBox3.jpg) (http://s366.photobucket.com/user/lauver_photos/media/PCToolBox3.jpg.html)
(http://i366.photobucket.com/albums/oo109/lauver_photos/PCToolBox1.jpg) (http://s366.photobucket.com/user/lauver_photos/media/PCToolBox1.jpg.html)
Note the "Portland 22, ORE." address and Registered trade mark on name plate... the RTM leads me to believe 1953+, but I'd like to get the date range a little tighter if possible. Also, the 1953 catalog shows the 2695 3/4 drive box, but the dimensions do not match my box; I'm confused...
Any clues or theories on date range?
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Jab, and now Lauver has motivated me to dig up my old P&C 3/4" box. Besides, it did get to 20 degrees today, so digging through 20+ old rusty tool boxes in the storage bin only to find this one on the very bottom(prolly cuz it's flat on top), well, let's say I took one for the forum today!!
This box is 23 1/2" wide, 8" deep and 4" tall. The rest is pretty self explanatory, although the embossed logo on the lid has both Milwaukie and Portland Oregon on it, if that helps to date it. I would think that the embossed lids would be older than the riveted plate lids, but that's for an expert to figure out....and no signs of red paint on this bad boy....no signs of any kind of paint.....lol. Looks to be of the same generation as the one in volvaldi's post, but the logo is a bit out of sight.
It's no cherry, but it was a cool find at that farm auction a couple years ago.....and fortunate no one wanted the tools inside it either.
DM&FS
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Wow 3 different 3/4 drive P&C tool boxes .
Which brings up a thought JJ needs clear photos of all the different P&C logos for the web site and dates would be great also.
So yous two mugs Can you post up a nice clear shot of the logos perfectly centered?
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Sure can Jabba, Good thing I didn't put it back in the bottom of the pile!!
DM&FS
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There are current eBay Listings for 16, 12, 10, 8 & 4 inch adjustable wrenches. Search P&C Adjustable
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Wow 3 different 3/4 drive P&C tool boxes .
Which brings up a thought JJ needs clear photos of all the different P&C logos for the web site and dates would be great also.
So yous two mugs Can you post up a nice clear shot of the logos perfectly centered?
I'll get a better shot soon, but meanwhile if you click on the link below the picture of my tool box you can zoom in and see that it is the same as dimwittedmoose51's. Don't remember ever noticing that it also says Portland. Thanks for pointing that out.
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I'm going to try again to upload the photos...no luck yesterday....
DM&FS
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Thanks I`ll send JJ over.
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Very interesting on the 3/4" boxes. So I'll jump right in and further muddy the waters. This pictured 3/4" box has a slightly different logo (Portland Ore) and is 20 1/2" x 4" x 4". IMHO, the timeline of the boxes posted would be as follows (this box is mid 30's late 30's) (moose51 & vovaldi box early 40's late 40's) (jabbers box mid to late 50's) (lauvers box 60's). There are at least two boxes not shown (early red and gold logo 20's early 30's) and (mid 40's mid 50's classic blue &white logo). Tool boxes after Plomb bought P&C have the same part#s and sizes as Plomb/Proto boxes. Some of this info I know for sure and some is edumacated guess work so can be taken with a grain of salt (the embossed boxes are the toughest to date but should all be pre 1948, and could change order from what I think). Looking forward to the website to help sort out the mysteries.
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/833/q1o6.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/n5q1o6j)
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/577/vtdx.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/g1vtdxj)
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/401/o02r.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/b5o02rj)
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Thanks guys! I can work with many of these pics for logos. I'm fairly handy at re-sizing, tweaking, cropping and playing with images. And once the website is up...everything is subject to scrutiny and revision. I've got broad shoulders and can handle criticism and correction. So other pics of logos (especially with an estimated date range), comments, history, corrections, etc. is welcome. Dimwittedmoose51, those are excellent pics...thanks.
I appreciate Jabberwoki's help and encouragement on this project. Things are coming along. Have most of the catalog download section done, patents section done, general website graphics and look done, and am started on typing up the history sections. Will have bio's on Uncle Charlie and John as individuals, a history section on the Idaho years (where the business started), and of course the Oregon factory. I was hoping originally to have it up by the end of March, 1st of April but I'm ahead of schedule. Maybe another month will do it. Would be quicker but still researching and finding odds & ends on the historical end.
I'm chipping away on it almost every night for several hours on work nights and quite a bit of time on weekends. Like a dog with a bone. :)
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The Catalogs will help sort some of the logo questions out, but I've noticed the older catalogs don't show the top exterior of the boxes. Logos can be seen on the inside of upper lids and these are remarkably consistent as seen in the 1928 catalog through the 1936 product line...but with subtle differences. Here is a teaser from the 1928 catalog. The larger sets like this one appear to be wooden boxes, with a metal tag attached inside the lid. Following the upper line of the diamond is "P&C Hand Forged Tools", down the right side is "Company", following the bottom of the diamond is "Milwaukie Oregon", and I think down the left side vertical is a date. Can't quite make it out.
(http://trechnus.com/downloads/1928box.png)
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Oh, but to find a set in the wooden box...........(drool)
DM&FS
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and I think down the left side vertical is a date. Can't quite make it out.
I'm pretty sure I see "MFG. BY"...
Awesome stuff!
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Better pic of the embossed Portland only logo. This is one of my 3/8" sets. The box is blue wrinkle paint.
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/713/6t4b.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/jt6t4bj)
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/546/mf60.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/f6mf60j)
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Might as well post the two P&C tools I can lay my hands on easily. A 4" adjustable and a 2 1/4" key chain screwdriver.
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That key screwdriver should be on your spare set of keys, since you certainly have a Plomb version on your main set like I do......lol I'd like to find a Pennens ring driver for my third set ofkeys to complete the set.
DM&FS