Tool Talk
Wrench Forum => Wrench Forum => Topic started by: turnnut on February 03, 2014, 09:30:29 PM
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I would like to return to the Ellis wrench topic, if I may.
we have seen mention of a 10" Ellis adjustable wrench being wanted, my question is,
has anyone really seen a 10" Ellis wrench ?
3 or 4 old ads for the Ellis speaks of 4 sizes, and they list them as 6", 8", 12" & 18" and
I have never run accross an old ad for a 10" Ellis wrench.
is there anyone out there that has one in their collection, if so, may we see a picture of it.
thank you for the time. Frank
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Good point, I am trying to complete my collection of one of each size. I guess I always assumed they made a 10 inch you might be correct. I have a several 6, one 8 and one 18 still looking for a 12 and 10 if they made such an animal. I don't have all of the styles, swivel, non- swivel, pipe, old style lever and newer style ball lever. I just want one of each size.
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hi Lewill2, I have one of each, 6-8-12-18. the 12" was my last find, I am soaking
it with Gibbs penetrant. someone butchered the ball on the lever trying to make it
move, all 4 have the ball type lever. I am just like you, 1 of each is all I need, but
if I saw another at a real steal price, I would grab it. if it is a better 12"
, I would not hesitate on it. I do not know if I will have any luck with
my 12". but that is the fun part, trying to bring it back to life.
I think that some of us lives by the motto; "keep nostalgia alive- restore something."
thank you for your input, Frank
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There is an article in the Fall 2013 issue of the Fine Tool Journal about the Ellis wrench. The author, Dan Gaier, wrote an excellent piece about this wrench. He covered all the different variations, much as you two have done. He says that the wrench was made in 6, 8, 10, 12, and 18 inch sizes, but the only pictures posted are of the 6, 8, and 12 inch sizes. So while excellent information, it does not definitively answer the 10 inch question.
Unfortunately Dan did not post an email address.
Mike
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I forgot about that article, I get the magazine also. I have Dan's email I can ask him about the 10 inch ones I can also ask if Dick Lawton has one in his collection.
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Sounds like we may get to the bottom of this after all. Good luck!
Mike
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thanks Lewill2, I will be watching this one.
my gut feeling is that it was just an assumption that a 10" was made.
like other tool makers made 6"-8"-10"-12" etc.
I never knew about the 18" until I found one a couple of years ago, then I
sterted digging deaper into old ads, yup, there was the 18" and the 12"
which I have added, not pretty tho.
but have not seen any ads for the 10" as I stated earlier.
hopefully Dan will straighten us out. Frank
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Dan Gaier replied back that neither he or Dick Lawton have a 10 inch but he thought he had found an auction listing in his research that listed a 10 inch. He was going to try and find that listing for me but no reply yet. I'll try and find time to look at old Donnelly auctions for one too. Dan also stated that he doesn't have an 18 inch either.
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I may have found what caused the error in the article Dan wrote, there was a Donnelly auction listing from his October 20, 2007 auction that listed a 10 inch Ellis but the picture shows the wrench is a 12 inch. The wrench sold for $198.00. I wish I could find a 12 inch for that much now.
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Thanks for the update Les. A question though. Can I infer that $198 is cheap for a 12 in. version? What do you think one would be worth today?
Mike
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I would pay that much for a decent one in a minute. I haven't seen one in a number of years that was for sale. The 6 inch ones seem to appear more frequently then the other sizes. I have only seen one 18 with my own eyes and I own it now. I have heard of others just never seen them in the flesh.
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If anyone has a 12 inch Ellis for sale I'll make an offer on it after seeing pictures.
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Thanks, I'll keep my eyes open at Flywheelers next week. A lot of wrenches there.
Mike
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Les, is there any chance that you could scan and post the FTJ article? This is brand is a new one to me and I would think others as well.
John
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I found this 1907 article in a google search.
http://books.google.com/books?id=XJk7AQAAMAAJ&pg=RA8-PA31&lpg=RA8-PA31&dq=ellis+wrench&source=bl&ots=Zf6MIo0eEg&sig=3g6AYmy--Pwu1nDW_mlb5stnTGI&hl=en&sa=X&ei=lmz-UvvUL5TOyAGhq4G4Cg&ved=0CEkQ6AEwCw#v=onepage&q=ellis%20wrench&f=false
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On another page.
http://books.google.com/books?id=XJk7AQAAMAAJ&pg=RA8-PA35&lpg=RA8-PA35&dq=ellis+wrench&source=bl&ots=Zf6MIo0eEg&sig=3g6AYmy--Pwu1nDW_mlb5stnTGI&hl=en&sa=X&ei=lmz-UvvUL5TOyAGhq4G4Cg&ved=0CEkQ6AEwCw#v=onepage&q=ellis%20wrench&f=false (http://books.google.com/books?id=XJk7AQAAMAAJ&pg=RA8-PA31&lpg=RA8-PA35&dq=ellis+wrench&source=bl&ots=Zf6MIo0eEg&sig=3g6AYmy--Pwu1nDW_mlb5stnTGI&hl=en&sa=X&ei=lmz-UvvUL5TOyAGhq4G4Cg&ved=0CEkQ6AEwCw#v=onepage&q=ellis%20wrench&f=false)
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I could scan the article but I don't think I want to post it here due to infringement issues. As we stated before they were available with a pipe jaw as well as straight jaws. They sold a version that the head free floated and there were 2 different styles of angle lock buttons/levers. I have seen a free floating version that was frozen in the straight position and I thought this was a non-swivel head version. Dan's article states that it is a free floating style. As far as I know this was the only wrench they made. The wrenches are marked with a Nov 3, 03 Patent date but the patent was issued May 17, 1904, patent 759,869. They were made by the Offset Wrench Company Holland Michigan and marketed by Paterson, Gotfried & Hunter New York.
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sorry, I do not mean to throw a monkey wrench in our study of Ellis wrenches, but;
March 1904 Cycle and Automobile Trade Journal issue, they speak the new Ellis wrench in
Motor Car Supply Co. catalog, the company was located on 1427 Michigan Ave. Chicago, ILL.
the wrenches were listed as;
6" nickle $1
8" nickle $1.50
8" black $1.35
12" nickle $1.75
12" black $1.60
16" in black only at $2.00 ????????????
this is listed as a new style wrench in 1904 made by the offset wrench co. Holland, Michigan
did they really make a 16" ??? or did they drop that idea and went with the 18" that we know of. ???
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further study of the Offset Wrench Co. turns up more information.
in the National Corporation Reporter Volume XXX Feb. 23, 1905 to Aug. 17, 1905
NEW CORPORATIONS.
Offset Wrench Co. Chicago, Ill.
capital stock $50,000
statement filed & license issued Feb. 24, 1905
final certificate issued March 8, 1905 fee paid &95.00
officers of the company.
George W. Bird, John W. Alderman, Templeton ??
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Interesting, I don't recall ever hearing of a 16, could it be a miss-print?
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Neat old catalog John. I scrolled through the whole thing, looking at the old ads. Found this one on page 5:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v307/jooliesews/Bobbys/Bobbys%20II/ellisadjustablewrench_zps7e84ef4e.jpg)
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attention Les,
today I got tired of chopping ice and moving snow, I decided to take a break. then something told me to look for my 18" Ellis, I found it, it is just like yours. another guy in MVWC has the 18" with a serrated jaw. with yours,
that makes 3 that I know of.
as of today, I will not say that they did not make a 16" Ellis, I have that article in favorites with the 16" listed.
yes, Les, keep looking for a 10" Ellis, why ??? after finding my 18" I decided to check on the 12" that I was
soaking in Gibbs, the one with the broken ball on the release lever. with my finger nail just getting a bite on
the lever, it moves & I can swing the head.
I brought it in the house to study it more and it is not a 12" it is a 10" Ellis
on the handle is: 10 in. Ellis reverse side: PAT NOV 3 08 ????????? not o4 ?????
now I need the 12" and maybe a 16"
looks like more research. Frank
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I had meant to say "not 03"
I just finished going thru every patent for Nov. 3, 1908. NOTHING ON THIS WRENCH,
the funny part is that NOV. 3, 1908 is on a Tuesday. (a patent date)
after I clean up from Tuesdays snow storm, I am going to put the 10" to the brass wire wheel.
the lever & adjuster is now working. (good old Gibbs penetrant.)
looking back at ebay, a 12" Ellis wrench was sold on Jan. 3, 2014 for $20.49 plus $12.35 s/h
it was in Vista, California.
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If that one that sold earlier this year is the one I am thinking of it was in real bad shape, like it was on the bottom of the ocean for the last 25 years.
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That wasn't the one I was thinking of. It didn't have the locking pawl and the jaws were ground down, I missed that one.
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were you looking at the one that (killthebudahh sold ?) I think that I spelled that right.
it was sometime in Jan.
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Yes that is the one. It comes up when you search auctions that ended.
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Can we see some pictures of the 10 inch?
Dan Gaier sent me another response and he is going to send me some additional advertising.
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in regards to pictures of the 10 inch Ellis, I am going to take some pictures and have my wife help me on getting them here. I'm not a computor person.
the other day I was going thru some older MJD catalogs & Fine Tool Journals. FTJ vol.54 #4 spring2005
on page 52 of the June 5, 2005 absentee auction they had 2 Ellis wrenches.
item 202 8" Ellis, missing adjuster wheel. est. 50-100
item 218 10 " Ellis, good condition. est. 140-220
I spent most of today looking for the next issue, as they had the sold prices in it, unbelieveable, I found it.
8" Ellis had 3 bidders, sold for $26
10" Ellis had 4 bidders, sold for $95 ( listing stated: Ellis 10 IN. PAT. NOV. 3, 08 )
i blew up the picture of the FTJ 10" and it sure does look like a 10 to me.
lewill2, my 10 inch also had NOV. 3, 08 ???
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I am finally going to try and put up pictures of the 10 inch Ellis adjustable wrench.
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Nice group of Ellis Wrenches, I am still looking for some of them to fill in my collection. On the prowl whenever I see one listed I look it over. I could have picked up a 6 inch with pipe jaws but the guy wouldn't state a price and when I threw a number out all he would say was I paid more than that for it. I let it go. Hard to deal with somebody like that. I guess I still need a 10", 12" and a 16"
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Lewill2, thanks, the 6 inch and the 10 inch were so rusted when I got them that at a short distance, it was hard to reconize what they were. the 6 inch was in a rusty tool box full of tools,
I took it over to the guy and he said, "give me a buck, so I handed him two dollars and smiled.
my 18 inch was no where as cheap.
soak, brush, soak, brush, etc. there is something about the material that they clean up without
finding pits, even the screws for the flex heads came out. I soaked them with Gibbs, let them set
and after a few days, I would tap them with a small brass hammer lightly, soak them again and kept going thru the same routine until they would screw out all the way.
the 10 inch was so rusted, I thought that it was a 12 inch, not noing about the 10, that is why I passed on a couple 12 inch ones, now I have not seen another for a while.
we may look for the 16 inch Ellis until our maker calls us. I had read the one ad for it, but I have my doubts that they ever made one, but then yet, I had my doubts about the 10 inch.
yes, I know that you & I will keep looking.
good luck, Frank
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Hello Ellis adjustable wrench collectors,
I still have not gotton a 12" Ellis. when I got my 10" thinking that it was a 12", there were a few
for sale, now that I want one, nada, nada.
within the last 12 months, there has been a few 10" for sale.
16" ??? still no examples that I know of.
anyone having any luck filling their set ???
Frank
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Still Looking too.
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16" Ellis does exist.
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I have an 18 inch that is pretty clean.
I also have replacement release knobs that will fit the 8 inch and maybe other sized Ellis wrenches. Plyerman was kind enough to make replacements for me. The thread size is 4-40 and is and exact replacement for the 8 inch ones. Send me a message if you need one.
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Having reached what I believe is the bottom of the rabbit hole, I am still unable to ascertain what the patent number is on the "Ellis" Adjustable "S" wrench.
The January 1906 write-up from "Hardware Magazine" appears to describe its introduction at a large hardware show in New York City the previous month.
Patterson Gottfried & Hunter Ltd. also manufactured other tools and hardware items, as can be seen in the ad for the "Union Box Hook" in the following post.
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Patterson Gottfried & Hunter Ltd. "Union Box Hook"
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four-cycle, This may be what you’re looking for: Patent no. 759,869 issued May 17, 1904 to David R. Ellis.
Mike
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from datamp.org http://www.datamp.org/patents/displayPatent.php?pn=759869&id=30677
"The Nov. 3, 1903 date often associated with the wrench is not reflected in either the application or patent dates."
thanks!
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Haven’t seen anything like these before. Very cool.