Tool Talk
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: bgarrett on February 07, 2014, 07:41:57 PM
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Does anyone know anything about this letter opener?
Its labeled
"Ford Motor Company V8 First sheet thru 56 in.
Cold strip mill Dec 20 1935"
I remember reading somewhere that Ford was not able to make large sheet metal stampings until 1936 or so.
56 inches doesnt seem 'large'
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If you read Fords history, you will run into someone named Joe Galamb. Sheet Iron Joe, rather colorful. Fords manufacturing capabilities while vast, seemed to be a step behind. A lot of effort was made to keep things going just as they are. A 56 inch wide sheet, was big for the time, distortion was an awful problem in those years, but I think this ushered in Fords solid steel top. That is a rather unique Ford collectible.
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I've toured pipe mills where they cut the rolls down before forming the strips into tube. The big rolls they start with seem to be around 56" wide.
I think a 56" mill is pretty big. What part could Ford be stamping bigger than that?
December 20, 1935 for a first run seems to be pretty close (right on) to 1936 "or so." Get your mill set up, run some testing, do a first run, work out the kinks, go on Christmas holiday, come back and start producing stampings in 1936.
Everything in your statements adds up. Nice little bit of steel / automotive / factory history, I think.
I think your piece was made from the waste pieces in between the stampings of whatever parts they were making.
Chilly
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What part could Ford be stamping bigger than that?
The Ford Panel trucks
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That is a rather unique Ford collectible.
I was guessing that they probably made a lot of these but google finds nothing. Do you really think this is the only one?
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I am betting it was something "stamped out" for managers involved in the project, 15-20 or so, as high as 50. Bigger than 56 inches, how about floor boards. Seems like up til 1936 Fords used cloth tops, after that it was steel. The panel trucks if I recall, had sides made from two stampings, upper and lower, welded joint.
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What part could Ford be stamping bigger than that?
The Ford Panel trucks
Sorry, strip mill - I said stamp mill. Still, 56" is a pretty wide sheet, I'm not sure where they would use the thinner gauge metal formed by the strip mill. On the panel trucks of the day, I think the roof panel may be the widest piece, just from looking at pictures. I don't know that the roof panel is much wider than that, although with the way it comes over the side it may be. It may use thicker gauge though. The primary point is that 56" is still a large mill, especially for technology in its first decade of production level use.
Chilly
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I am betting it was something "stamped out" for managers involved in the project, 15-20 or so, as high as 50. Bigger than 56 inches, how about floor boards. Seems like up til 1936 Fords used cloth tops, after that it was steel. The panel trucks if I recall, had sides made from two stampings, upper and lower, welded joint.
That makes good sense. Some sort of honorable memento for the bigwigs involved at the time. Too bad that thing can't talk.
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I am betting it was something "stamped out" for managers involved in the project, 15-20 or so, as high as 50. Bigger than 56 inches, how about floor boards. Seems like up til 1936 Fords used cloth tops, after that it was steel. The panel trucks if I recall, had sides made from two stampings, upper and lower, welded joint.
I've seen these "mementos" given out for promotional items also. Could be anywhere from a small run to a very small run.
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1936 was the 1st year of the all steel top, coupes and sedans, 37 was 1st year for panel trucks.
Dodge/Chrysler/DeSoto was the 1st all steel top 33 Airflow
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I knew you guys were good. :) I asked over on the Ford forum and have only gotten one response!
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I can prove the dates on the panel trucks, as I have a 36 deluxe, 37 60hp, and a 37 85hp 1/4 ton panels. Yep they called them 1/4 ton but they could haul 1/2 ton with out sagging newer ones do.
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I have a 36 Ford Tudor and a 37 Ford panel truck
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I can prove the dates on the panel trucks, as I have a 36 deluxe, 37 60hp, and a 37 85hp 1/4 ton panels. Yep they called them 1/4 ton but they could haul 1/2 ton with out sagging newer ones do.
Who made Fords panel trucks from 1928 to 1936? Those are very large panels
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I can prove the dates on the panel trucks, as I have a 36 deluxe, 37 60hp, and a 37 85hp 1/4 ton panels. Yep they called them 1/4 ton but they could haul 1/2 ton with out sagging newer ones do.
Who made Fords panel trucks from 1928 to 1936? Those are very large panels
That could be due to a lot of different reasons, the first three that I can think of are:
1. The bought steel that was already milled to the thickness they need from others, or others milled it thinner for them.
2. The metal on the older vehicles was thicker - the new technology of the cold roll strip mill improved on the hot roll strip mill by allowing the steel to be rolled to a thinner gauge. I believe cold rolling can impart a more uniform finish to steel also, but I am not so sure about that. I don't know the differences in the metal thickness or the thickness of the metal on the vehicles.
3. The metal was cold rolled on a smaller mill, it didn't need to be that big.
I think the facts are: (correct me anyone, I only claim 85% accuracy, but I may be wrong about that percentage, too.)
1. Large size cold roll strip milling, although an early 1900's technology, wasn't really used industrially until starting in the late 20's.
2. Ford first started making large sheet metal stampings sometime around 1936.
3. The cold roll strip mill doesn't stamp, rather it thinned the metal prior to it being stamped on another machine. Conjecture: A press of some sort stamped the sheet?
4. Ford set up their first cold roll strip mill in December, 1935.
5. Some number of letter openers were produced to commemerate the event, and were made from the first sheet milled on the new 56" cold roll strip mill.
6. Ford had vehicles with large steel panels prior to their acquisition of a cold roll strip mill.
7. Although we don't know how big the sheet was, or if other stampings were produced from it, we do know that the artifact was one of those made from the first sheet produced on Ford's first cold roll strip mill and therefore of limited production.
8. BGarrett has one of those letter openers, and it is assumed to be authentic.
Sorry BGarrett, I may have been misleading. You asked for genius's. I used to be 90% of one, but I think I have slipped to 87.5% of one. Smartest probably have other people to answer questions for them. But I really think your letter opener is cool, is probably museum worthy, and you found one of those obscure little pieces of history that help date the technology. Thanks for recognizing it's uniqueness, for bringing it to us and for not tossing it in with the other office junk.
My finger is tired now.
Chilly
PS: To an engineer the cup isn't half full or half empty. The cup is twice as big as it needs to be.
PSS: Having a mistress can be useful; your wife will think you are with your mistress, your mistress will think you are with your wife, and you can be out in your shop having some real fun.
( I may be getting a blister now. Can't tell because most of my sensory nerves are gone from my hands now. I'll know tomorrow AM.)
Chilly out..........
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Chilly summed it up and Mr Garrett is very fortunate to have that bit of automotive history. I don't know what part of the world Mr G hails from, but here about the Detroit area we have occasion to see many of these kinds of "Production mementos", I have (somewhere) sheet metal ash trays from stamping plants at both Chrysler and Cadillac (the Cadillac one is even chrome plated). Miniature cast iron engine blocks make nice commemorative paper weights.
The story of production innovation in Ford's early days is an interesting story, with many colorful characters. The afore mentioned Joe Galamb is one of them that is especially associated with the metal forming end of the business. Mr. Galamb, known as "Sheet Metal Joe" or as it supposedly came across in his Hungarian accent "shit metal" was likely the guy behind that new cold rolling mill. Another key player at Ford was Charlie Sorensen a hard headed manufacturing genius known as "Cast Iron Charlie", The story goes that there was no love between these two guys. Joe was always advocating for less expensive stamped sheet metal and Charlie was the drop forge or cast iron advocate. If you are familiar with Model A's you will see that Joe eventually won out on many parts that began as castings or forgings in 1928 and ended up as heavy sheet metal stampings in 1931.
Just a bit of unofficial history from Motown
Joe B
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Joe, It's interesting that you mentioned the little cast iron engine blocks.
When I left the Buick foundry back in 1975, that was one of the things I was given, along with a nice mahogany plaque to hold it. I'm not sure what happened to the plaque, but I still have the block. Right now it supports a no. 2 size Van Camp Hardware plane.
The little block is of the old 401/425 cu. in. style that was last used in production in 1966. Probably a mite heavy for a paperweight. :)
Sorry to be off topic but I couldn't resist.
Mike
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Information from another forum:
I can tell you from working in steel mills, any time we start up a new mill, they will take the first piece of product off of the line and make commemorative what-knots for all the leadership personnel. I guess its just sort of a tradition in the steel industry. Either way it looks like you have a rare piece there. There may have only been a handful of those letter openers made for supervision, management or whoever was in charge at the time.