Tool Talk
What's-It Forum => What's-It Forum => Topic started by: scottg on March 29, 2014, 07:07:17 PM
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Hey Guys
Well I don't need to know how old this is. Its less than 24 hours old
I don't need to know who made it. I did
But why? Why did I need to make this?
Oh it works very well. Its about 3 inches long.
Its spring steel cut from an old handsaw blade and Ipe wood.
Ipe one of the hardest woods in the world and among the heaviest. Ipe is what the Atlantic City Pier is made out of. It was used expansively all through the 70's and 80's as residential suburban deck material. Millions upon billions of feet of it. It was dirt cheap and except for the fact that would can't nail it, it lasts for 2 generations or more in the worst conditions.
Then, just when the world supply was running out, it was found that it made violin bows of excellent quality.
Pernambuco wood, the original bow wood going back centuries, is all but gone now. The last dregs make crappy bows.
So ipe is the up and coming wood of choice.
Except most of it gone............
And the price is rising fast.
yours Scott
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Not for scraping your little canary is it?
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>Why did I need to make this?
Because it wasn't there...you really still need a *reason* ? LOL
Does it stand on end on that handle?
You are making me totally rethink handles...
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A fletcher's scraper???
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Fungus scraper, like in between the toes.
:-)
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Geeze I hope my toes aren't ---this--- bad heehehehe
Fletcher's tool is really close, and in fact could be used for scraping arrows.
Noel was close too, except I would not scrape my actual poultry!!
Its for scraping dried poop off bird perches.
All day my birds are loose to play in the house anywhere they want to go.
But from late afternoon until morning they are locked into their little cages.
Yup imprisoned in there all night.......... with 3 or 4 kinds of fresh fruit and many kinds of seeds, fresh greens and sometimes, hard boiled eggs, finely shredded carrots, crushed "people" seeds like walnuts or pecans, pineapple, raisins, etc etc
They are only super grade restored antique birdcages from the king of all cagemakers, Hendryx.
Locked in a bird mansion with a fresh banquet every night. Must be hard to take. heehehe
So anyway, I used to take out the cage perches (which get crusted up pretty fast) and scrape them with a butter knife over the trashcan. Ridiculous slow.
This tool lets me reach into the cage and scrape about 1/3 of each stick at single a pass, in seconds flat.
Picture captions
1 Holy Crap its a whole bag of pecans!!
2 Bathtime in a cut crystal celery dish
3 This savvy shopper knows the way
yours Scott
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scottg,
Now here's a timely thread. "SCRAPER TOOL"
Nice little bird crap scraper your got there. I like it, but I don't need one of those... at least I don't think I need one.
What I need is a couple (say 2-5) general purpose scrapers for various wood projects. And I have an old saw blade.
What I need are some ideas on size and shape, and how to cut the saw blade into workable pieces.
Can you help me? You probably already have examples of all the proven sizes and shapes in your bib coveralls.
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Lauver brought up a good topic. How did you cut the metal? The radius looks good.
At home I have used a angle grinder in the to cut rough shapes. Jigsaws to cut finer shapes, even the blades made for metal go dull fairly quik but they do work. To do real fine work I used a file.
At work I have brough in stuff to do(off the clock) with the plasma cutter. Great tool, but most of us don't have one sitting in the garage lol.
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Why sure guys
Its the little paper thin Dremel cutoff disks.
While I have and can cut up old saws with lots of different methods, the easiest and never-ruins-the-temper delight is the cutoff wheel. These are the ones you get 36 wheels in a tube.
You mark your blade, I use a sharpie.
Reach out to the far end of your mark and lightly bring the wheel/Dremel back to you. You do this so the sparks don't obscure your cutline.
Fairly light passes! If you try to hog it in one you will break the wheel and overheat the scraper. Once you have a line cut, its pretty easy to follow it on successive passes. Go several passes until you are around 1/2 way though the steel.
When you are 1/2 way though, put it in a vise with the cutline just showing. Take a hammer and whack it near the line. It will snap right off.
Grind it with a bench grinder to rough up the final shape (dip in water frequently, don't overheat it). Finish with files.
3X5" is the most common hand scraper size for wood. I really like 2 X 4" and
3/4" x 5" too.
On old saws they are taper ground. This means really thin and flexible at the tip of the saw and thick and heavy at the bottom (the handle end).
Both these are valuable scrapers. You want thick and heavy to cut really deep, as in 7 layers of old paint removal. The flexy tips can reach down into curves and smooth up hard to finish parts.
The long skinny ones (cut them out from metal near the saw's tip) are generally effortless and when you have one you will wonder how you ever got along without.
Here is a short article I did, with a few pictures.
http://www.wkfinetools.com/tmaking/art/makingscraper/makingscraper.asp (http://www.wkfinetools.com/tmaking/art/makingscraper/makingscraper.asp)
yours Scott
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Thank you Scott, got some old saws, (don't know age or brand yet) will try to make some, maybe curved & burnish edge?
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My friend, Colin Dipper, who makes probably the best concertinas in the world, cuts silver steel sheet by scoring with a tungsten carbide tile cutter, holding in a vice and snapping off. He uses thus method for making the reeds from hardened steel sheet.
You can drill hardened steel, e.g. Allen socket screws, using a tungsten carbide masonry drill, if you resharpen it first to a metal drill type of profile.. (and do not use hammer action....). Saw makers use similar for drilling the holes in hardened saw blades to fit the handles.
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There's scrapers and there's scrapers. There are the blades made to be used in the Stanley #12, simple paint scrapers, and a variety of cabinet scrapers. The simplest can be made by flat filing a putty knife. Works pretty well. Works even better if you burnish it (and for a straight scraper, burnishing can be accomplished with the face of your hammer. You can also file the edge of a scraper at an angle, followed by burnishing to get the tall edge sharp.
Hand scrapers -- those without handles -- can be had in a number of shapes. The simplest of these are simple rectangles. They even can be had in some shapes, and the French curve shape is very useful. Check the sites below.
http://www.workshopheaven.com/tools/Individual_ARNO_Cabinet_Scrapers.html
http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/Search.aspx?action=n
But the scraper really comes into its own by custom making your own. They can be made to any shape you need, and on the spot from old saw blades. Some can also be set into a scratch stock and can cut duplicate moldings very quickly. For small molding details, these can be made from hack saw blades.
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Gang,
Great information. I think I can get started making some scrapers. But, I need a little more information on this burnishing/hook thing.
a) how exactly do you burnish?
b) when do you need to burnish?
The more explicit the better...
Thanks guys
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Hey Pal
When you need to burnish, turn a hook?
You run the edge of the scraper and the sides as well, up and down sharpening stones (or sandpaper). First coarse, then fine and maybe even finer.
When the edge has been fully polished 90 degrees, you take the butt end of a large drill bit, or a real jewelers burnisher and roll the edge.
Warning, this takes practice.
The finest scrapings are made this way, and the smoothest finishes. But its a pain in the butt!
I seldom use a burnisher at all.
Better to just.....................
"Drawfile and go!" <tm>
I realize everybody so desperately wants scraping to be more complicated than this, entire books are dedicated to it and gadgets galore and expensive yuppie goods sold across the nation!! Hooray for commerce, buy lots of stuff!!
Fear tactics over simple wood scraping are employed so universally to sell more products, that nearly everyone believes it now.
I was looking over the Lee Valley catalog the other day, and there was the familiar selection of scrapers. 5 bucks apiece, perfectly available.
Then it goes on to offer gadgets and gee-gaws and leather wallets and .............you can squander 200 dollars in no time, and you still can't scrape!!
And these guys are the most reasonable!! Wonder what $$$$$$$$$$$ crap Bridge City is hustling for scraping now?
It is actually exceedingly simple guys. Lay the scraper flat in your hand and go over the face of it to remove the old burr in case there are still traces. Flip it over and do the other side,(in case you couldn't see that coming). There's 26 seconds shot to hell right there. heheheh
(http://users.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/images/Scrapers/scraper2a1.jpg)
Put it in the vise with the edge about 1/4" higher than the jaws. Drawfile a good edge. Yes a single cut file is better. Watch you don't hollow the middle leaving you sharp corners to dig into your work. I like a slightly convex, or crowned edge myself, but feel free to get out the optical comparator and scanning electron microscope if you have time to waste on the perfect straight edge.
(http://users.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/images/Scrapers/scrapere3.jpg)
Take it out and use it.
What could be easier?
I guess this doesn't mean that it works itself. There seems to be a matter of skill involved since I see so many struggling with a scraper that should cut fine.
I don't have the slightest trouble piling up sacks of fluffs whether face grain or side or even end grain and
I don't do it for show, I do it for work.
Take a good stance, leaned slightly forward. Wrap your finger around the ends with your thumbs in the middle down low, lean the scraper blade forward a few degrees
(http://users.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/images/Scrapers/scraperh2.jpg)
Push!
(http://users.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/images/Scrapers/scraperb1.jpg)
You think we are screwing around here? This is goncalo alves wood. Hard tropical wood from So America. Notoriously tear out prone. Look very closely at the wood behind the scraper. You couldn't sand it this smooth in 1/2 hours work with a belt sander,
and you are looking at 22 seconds work!
(http://users.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/images/Scrapers/scraperc1.jpg)
Cast iron and soft steel I have scraped. Brass is reasonable easy. Bronze can be nasty, but then that's bronze which is engineered to be nasty, and tough! Aluminum scrapes like pine, gobbles so fast you can actually get yourself into trouble. Cherry, rosewood, ebony, plastics. All succumb to the scraper with relatively equal ease.
And it take 37 seconds to resharpen it when it does get dull!
I'll even use a dull scraper on small jobs about 1/2 the time, being a lazy sort. Pick it up and quickly feel for any trace of burr left and just use that little spot.
There is no mystery to scraper sharpening as badly as so many want to believe. Sometimes I feel like I'm giving advise on how to breathe air. Sharpening is not your problem, men. The mystery, whatever there is, seems to be in operation.
I once prepared a whole tutorial and my friends even shot a video of me doing it and me n Wik were going to put it up on a pay per view for a buck a download, (and it included at least some tips toward technique or operation) but we had trouble formatting the footage since everybody on my end was so computer illiterate (poor Wiktor had to try and deal with us) and before we could get it together the word got out and others quickly put up their complicated schemes (for 4 times the money),
and then pretty soon there were free sites all over the place too.
And they are all overcomplicated!! Its all so much easier than you are being led to believe!!
But you have to develop your working technique.
The scraper itself is of little consequence, it's you, your hands, your eyes, your style....
that performs the deed.
Oh PS, on the rare occasion when I do actually use a burnisher, the jewelers will sell you a pip for a dollar two fifty or you can use the shank of any high speed drill bit or a carbide pin.
yours Scott
(http://users.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/images/Scrapers/scrapere3.jpg)
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Some other good info; http://ccs.infospace.com/ClickHandler.ashx?ld=20140403&app=1&c=zensearch&s=zensearch&rc=&dc=&euip=50.113.6.129&pvaid=644ca76cdcaa412fa71f8134638a9a18&dt=Other&fct.uid=2e0738c5dc8a48afbfe0adc005144709&en=VDmpBk3C0yEJl8p46%2fskWGLdjbK9gOFDyQw7CaFwN705P%2bjxQS71wQ%3d%3d&du=www.thewoodwhisperer.com%2fvideos%2fbarely-scraping-by&ru=http%3a%2f%2fwww.thewoodwhisperer.com%2fvideos%2fbarely-scraping-by%2f&ap=3&coi=771&cop=main-title&npp=3&p=0&pp=0&ep=3&mid=9&hash=63F5FBE614BA31BFCA5470FC71A9AE74
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Some other good info; http://ccs.infospace.com/ClickHandler.ashx?ld=20140403&app=1&c=zensearch&s=zensearch&rc=&dc=&euip=50.113.6.129&pvaid=644ca76cdcaa412fa71f8134638a9a18&dt=Other&fct.uid=2e0738c5dc8a48afbfe0adc005144709&en=VDmpBk3C0yEJl8p46%2fskWGLdjbK9gOFDyQw7CaFwN705P%2bjxQS71wQ%3d%3d&du=www.thewoodwhisperer.com%2fvideos%2fbarely-scraping-by&ru=http%3a%2f%2fwww.thewoodwhisperer.com%2fvideos%2fbarely-scraping-by%2f&ap=3&coi=771&cop=main-title&npp=3&p=0&pp=0&ep=3&mid=9&hash=63F5FBE614BA31BFCA5470FC71A9AE74
Yup, once again, we are learning from a 22 year old suburbanite who might have been scraping, what, 40 minutes in his life?
Yes folks, in only 45 minutes preparation time, with 60 dollars in equipment,
you too can prepare a scraper to cut a few so-so scrapings.
90% of the web is loaded with this crap
80% are subtly hustling products they either sell or get a commission on
Or, you can take it from me, someone who has been scraping every day for 40 years.
1 scraper, one file, 1 minute
drawfile and go
yours Scott
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Don't be quite so cynical Scott - W Henry Northcott was only 22 years old when he wrote his treatise on the lathe (http://www.amazon.com/W.-Henry-Northcott/e/B001KCMEZ6)
But I agree, a sharp scraper is a wonderful tool....
I went to a TATHS conference in 2013, one of the speakers was a retired professional wood carver - he just used an oil stone for all his wood carving chisels - no fancy lapping paste, japanese water stones or diamond hones for him - just a good old fashioned oil stone... Boy, could his chisels cut....
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Sorry Scott, didn't know you had posted your reply while I was checking "Burnishing info" copied a link & typed my reply..
thought he did a decent job explaining the process. But I like yours better...
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I've watched Viet-Namese carpenters complete the task in less time than the video takes. Just an every day task. Kinda like what Scott says, except they use the face of their hammers to do the burnishing. Oh, and they file the edge at an angle (20 degrees maybe?) instead of some perfect 90 degrees. They burnish only the acute angle side. Works perfect.
I usually do the 90 thing and burnish at 90 degrees first, then at about 15 degrees on both sides of the edge, which gives me two usable sides.
Mini-grump: Somebody ought to tell the kid that you *do not* use the file like a piece of sand paper. It only cuts one way. Rubbing back and forth shortens the life of the file.
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scottg,
Thank you for demystifying this stuff. As usual good advise: keep it simple. Advise taken.
Over & out...
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Scott as always the responses you say are great. It was packed with tons of good information, along with a few parts that made me laugh.
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he just used an oil stone for all his wood carving chisels - no fancy lapping paste, japanese water stones or diamond hones for him - just a good old fashioned oil stone... Boy, could his chisels cut....
I have a taped lecture series from the great Nora Hall.
Nora was just a kid when WW11 happened. Her family didn't get out in time.
Her dad, a jew, carved wood for the Nazis, so they wouldn't kill him. He taught Nora very quickly too.
Want to see someone carve wood fast? Imagine the SS over your shoulder with machine guns!
That girl could make the chips FLY!
Anyway she honed her tools whenever she used them. Just before.
(only a crazy person puts a freshly sharpened tool away)
A small slip of stone, kind of a back and forth sing songy motion, she did it so casual and easy, as she walked, talked and chewed gum at the same time! Second nature.
Unfortunately they are VCR tapes and hardly anyone has anything to play them back on now. I have them in a dark closet on the north side of the house, that never gets very warm. One day I would like to put them on disk.
yours Scott
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>One day I would like to put them on disk.
Do it soon. I went looking for one of those combined DVD / VCR players that can copy tape to a DVD and no one has them any more :(
I don't think anyone is even making VCR's any more.
I guess i missed my chance to start a vintage VCR collection cheap...
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I know,............ I am getting worried
I have a box in my spare bedroom. In this cabinet are the top movies of all time.
All the greats. The 7 academy award winners! The legends.
Also, movies I totally love, but were a complete flop at the box office.
It took me 2 decades and more to round these up.
I almost bought a combination VCR/DVD recorder last year. I guess I better get on the job.
yours Scott