Tool Talk
Wrench Forum => Wrench Forum => Topic started by: Papaw on April 19, 2014, 10:14:33 AM
-
Who made this wrench? Style is definitely like ACME Twist Handle. Only mark I see is a 6 or 9, but the wrench is 8" long.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v439/papao55/Assorted%20wrenches/IMG_3476_zps61c64f87.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/papao55/media/Assorted%20wrenches/IMG_3476_zps61c64f87.jpg.html)
-
Good grief...... I didn't think was a wrench you DIDN'T know about!!!! Glad to find out your human, afterall!!!!
cheers
bird.
-
You'd be surprised at what I don't know! I am only the guy who tries to get wrench folks together to expand our knowledge.
-
I looked around a bit, Noel. And all I could come up with is 1880's ACME wrenches.
Though, this ebay ad was interesting. Had 3 sizes, but the 8" long one has the adjustment nut on the back like yours. The other two have it on the front. The seller sounds like he knows the history of the things. maybe you could email him and pick his brain?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Antique-set-of-3-Monkey-Wrench-w-Twisted-Handle-Rare-/111326889394?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19eb9985b2
-
There's a small antique store bout 20 miles from me that has a set of these (not like papaw's).
Said he wanted $15 a piece. I'll have to think about investigating them again.
-
You'd be surprised at what I don't know! .
Well, Papaw, as for me, there are things that I think I know and things that I know I don't know. And there are things that I don't know that I don't know. I keep rediscovering that the more I tune in to this Forum. Nice wrench, by the way. Ralph
-
Ive seen lots of old wrenches in my hunts and travels. Lots and lots. Ive never seen one (Acme) with that style of jaw. Pretty cool Papaw. CW
-
You'd be surprised at what I don't know! .
Well, Papaw, as for me, there are things that I think I know and things I don't know. And there are things that I don't know that I don't know. I keep rediscovering that the more I tune in to this Forum. Nice wrench, by the way. Ralph
I claim 85% accuracy, with the disclaimer that I never know when I am in the 15% zone and only within my areas of expertise / interest. My 85% claim may be within the 15% area for all I know, but I figured a solid "B" average was okay.
That's one of the reasons I come here. There is so much more to learn.
Maybe your wrench is for lefties, or could it possibly be an early example of a domestic metric wrench? Am I now in the 15% for sure?
Chilly
-
Papaw, most ACme wrenches that I have seen has the adjuster nut on the lower rod,
there were about 3 or 4 companies making the Acme wrench.
Whitman & Barnes Mfg. Co. New York, N.Y. put the adjuster nut on the top bar, but I
have not seen any pictures like yours. which seems to be a nut & pipe wrench.
will keep my eye out for any pictures, Frank
-
The ad on datamp says Hollands patent (Capitol Mfg) which adds a pipe jaw came in 5,10,12,15 inch. but yours is 8....(The Holland jaw is staked, but it says the 5 is different for bicycle spokes.)
I suppose 8" would be a bit large for bicycle spokes...
Plus the nut is on the wrong side...
Very odd variation....
-
My memory is bad. Didn't I get this wrench from someone here?
-
pat # 447,665 is like yours except that the nut is on the opposite rod.
March 3, 1891 by F.S. Cook and assigned to Capital Mfg. Co. Chicago, ILL
but refering back to my last post about Whitman & Barnes buying out the other
company that was making the Acme Wrenches and changing the nut location,
it is very possible that they also made this style.
hang onto that one.
bad memory ?? no, I would consider myself lucky if I could remember where I got
1 % of of my wrenches.
-
That patent is for the pipe jaws.
-
Never seen another like this one -- both jaws are for square nuts (or square axle nuts) -- one side for gripping on the flats, the other to grab corners. Possibly European rendition of the ACME style?
I looked very hard, and never found what type of equipment was used to form the twist handle -- once Seymour's patent ran out anybody was free to produce the twist handle wrenches.
-
Never seen another like this one -- both jaws are for square nuts (or square axle nuts) -- one side for gripping on the flats, the other to grab corners. Possibly European rendition of the ACME style?
I looked very hard, and never found what type of equipment was used to form the twist handle -- once Seymour's patent ran out anybody was free to produce the twist handle wrenches.
I've been wondering about twist handles myself lately. How the heck did they make such perfect twists on such large diameter wire 100+ years ago?? As a person who has spent a lifetime working with metals and machine shops, you would think I would know, but I don't.
-
In the photo below, I have indicated marks I see on the shaft that suggest the rod was twisted while red hot, using a bar or possibly a monkey wrench.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v439/papao55/Assorted%20wrenches/IMG_3476withtext_zps2d19cc43.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/papao55/media/Assorted%20wrenches/IMG_3476withtext_zps2d19cc43.jpg.html)
Like this-
(http://www.mooseforge.com/images/Twisting/fig260.gif)
-
There is something about this wrench that draws me back time and again as though I have a past acquaintance with it, though I know (I think) that I don't know anything about it.
Yet I find it more than hypnotically interesting and am compelled to try to build one (miniature of course 1/4 scale). Ralph
Thanks for the idea, Papaw.
I can visualize it and can see its component parts three dimensionally. And I've got a good start:
(http://i1050.photobucket.com/albums/s405/flyingtractors1/ACMEWrench002_zpsfd1309a0.jpg)
-
Art- be aware that the diagonal jaw is offset from the centerline. Maybe you can see it in this out of focus shot.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v439/papao55/Assorted%20wrenches/IMG_3477_zps8952f86f.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/papao55/media/Assorted%20wrenches/IMG_3477_zps8952f86f.jpg.html)
-
Here is a better look at it-
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v439/papao55/Assorted%20wrenches/IMG_3565_zps2e1004e3.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/papao55/media/Assorted%20wrenches/IMG_3565_zps2e1004e3.jpg.html)
-
Oh. I hadn't seen that from the first picture but can see it more clearly now. That does give it different dimension. Thanks. I'll proceed. Ralph
-
Protecting the threads while twisting, how will that be done?
-
Hi, HeelSpur.
I thought about that long and hard and decided that the best way for me to twist it without damaging the threaded area was to twist it first then cut the threads on one leg before the "wish bone" bend is completed. I wonder how they actually did do it initially.
(http://i1050.photobucket.com/albums/s405/flyingtractors1/ACMEWrench005_zps2424c757.jpg)
Now the task will be to bend a perfect "U" shape with both legs so that they are exactly the same distance apart and perfectly parallel all the way up and as far apart as the holes on both cross members so that it travels freely without binding. Drilling those tiny holes ( 0.0825) for 2-56 threaded leg was a trick. That's a long way to drill without straying so that the holes on top and bottom end up in the center of the cross member. Ralph
-
Wow! Amazing that you can get the turns so even like that.
Two thumbs way up!
-
I believe that Art could make 1 or 2 threaded tubes to screw over the threads,
such as a coupling.
-
Now that's another idea that I hadn't considered, turnnut. And it's at the heart of the fun in this hobby - figuring out how to achieve a particular end or trying to imagine how it was done initially. It seems that tool makers have always developed ingenious ways to accomplish complex simplicity that works well. In building miniature tools I find that the complexity is magnified inversely as the scale decreases. I just keep having fun replecating old tools and maybe reinventing fabrication procedures. Ralph
-
Hilary Klein made some 3" ACME miniatures, but he used brass for all the parts, and the twist was not bi-laterally symmetrical ( see photo no. 20 in Les Williams' compilation of the Hilary Klein miniatures ).
Dad also had photos of some where someone had used bicycle spoke wire (annealed) for the rod, and the resulting "working key chain miniatures" were about one inch long. He shows some other examples in no. 291 of "Antique & Unusual Wrenches" as well.
-
I believe that Art could make 1 or 2 threaded tubes to screw over the threads,
such as a coupling.
Good idea. Would they even need to be threaded? Tubes, like those brass displays would fit tight.
I have been to Tolco hanger's factory. They don't cut rod, they roll it. It comes on a coil, it is straightened and cut to length. The next machine rolls the thread and spits it out the end.
I once got a 10'-0" length of 3/8" all thread rod when I was an apprentice. I cut off a piece and filed the end. I spent the next 5 or so minutes trying to screw it into a top beam clamp. The foreman came over and tried it too. No one could make it thread on. We even re-cut the rod, but it still didn't work. Finally we figured out the rod had concentric rings instead of threads.
I can't imagine how they made that one.
Chilly (old guy reminiscing)
-
A little progress every day.
Since the parts were already cut and fitted (made to fit right?) before I realized that the diagonal jaw was offset, I proceeded with the build as it was, and rather than remove a part of it, I decided that I'd keep it as is with a right and a left offset (surely they did build one such as that back then). I'll build another one more exactly like the picture. The first one is finished and shown here in its rough state. Notice the same kind or construction marks as Papaw pointed out near the loop on the original suggesting that mine was built very much the same way as the original. Papaw, I do believe that you got that right. Ralph
(http://i1050.photobucket.com/albums/s405/flyingtractors1/ACMEWrench010_zps7a2d920b.jpg)
And in the polished sterling silver state.
(http://i1050.photobucket.com/albums/s405/flyingtractors1/ACMEWrench016_zps88c74494.jpg)
And with a black patina in keeping with the original.
(http://i1050.photobucket.com/albums/s405/flyingtractors1/ACMEWrench021_zps7d00cbf7.jpg)
Another comparable size scale. It is 1/4 scale as my standard scale and therefore it is 2 inches long.
(http://i1050.photobucket.com/albums/s405/flyingtractors1/ACMEWrench023_zpsd2b76532.jpg)
-
Another masterful job! Our hats are off to you sir!
-
Truly amazing work.
-
I bow to the Master mini-wrench maker, well done.
now you should stamp the date on it, and a 100 years from
now, collectors will be trying to find out what company made it.
that is a wrench of every collectors dream, well done Art.
I will still look for ads of the original, Frank
-
Looking good Ralph!
-
Art = Art
Brian
-
wow!! truly amazing work +1
-
Wow! Are you sure you don't have a crew of Leprechauns working for you?
-
Thanks, Gents. I really do appreciate your thoughts. The second rendition is almost done. It became necessary to build another when I discovered that it was not quite exactly like the full scale model in that the diagonal jaw is not offset from the centerline, and the handle has four twists rather than the original three. Well, got to go feed the Leprechauns and try to get some work done. Will post version two soon. Ralph
-
ok Ralph, now I will stop calling you Art.
-
That's OK, Frank. I just now realized than your name is not "turnnut". :) Some of my friends call me Art. I will respond to either Ralph or Art, and I have been called many other names, some of which are not so graceful. Ralph
-
Well, it's done. This one is more like it ( the original posted ).
(http://i1050.photobucket.com/albums/s405/flyingtractors1/ACMEWrench2003_zpsf22120ab.jpg)
Both together. I've decided to leave the second one in its polishes silver state.
(http://i1050.photobucket.com/albums/s405/flyingtractors1/ACMEWrench2009_zps34e53239.jpg)
(http://i1050.photobucket.com/albums/s405/flyingtractors1/ACMEWrench2011_zps33d2cb73.jpg)
Thanks, Paraw for the idea and for letting me ride along on your string. Ralph
-
You are welcome, Sir! It is we who are blessed by having you here to show us what can be done with some talent and perseverance!
-
Just awesome! Kudos!