That is, the southern type.....
I spent this week installing partitions in a 100 year old mill building. The fellow running the job warned me up front that the beams were Southern Yellow Pine, well aged.
I then discovered why he thought it necessary to tell me that tidbit. I destroyed 6 phillips bits and a drill bit putting in 30 some odd screws, the stuff is harder than cement...yeash...they don't make wood like that any more.
The odd thing is, I had to chisel out some notches, it splits really easily with the grain, but then it laughed at me when I tried to finish the notch cross grain, my chisel only left pretty little dents in it.....
Now I know why the old timers used it for the beams in the mill....
Temites didn't like it either but it burns like keroesene.
I put a roof on my house last year or the year before and I got a permit because I was afraid one of my neighbors would complain, biggest waste of 300 plus dollars I ever spent. Anyway code requires that the sheeting on the roof be renailed down with 2.5 ( if I remember correctly ) inch nails every few inches.
I have a big nail gun and a bigger compressor and the nails just about bounced off the roof. Inspector came out and he was not surprised, the home was built in 71, he said that the wood becomes that way because of the heat we have, he told me to drive a few in by hand and take a pictire so that he could put it in my file that I had done it. In other words he let me off. Id still be up there if had not done that.
I havent heard to much of yellow pine. About all ive heard of yellow pine is thats what my buddy uses on his dumptruck sides.
Oh man, I love Southern yellow pine! I was surprised to find in an old Audel's carpenters manual, that it comes close to oak for structural strength in building. I came across some a while back, though it's not commonly available in California, and just loved working with it. It took to the chisel like a hard wood, no crushing at all.
Yet it has that pine smell, that never becomes cloying (cedar is nice, until you have to mill a couple of thousand board feet, and then it becomes annoying!), and it has that gentle pine appearance when finished. It's a great wood.
Most of the house we live in was built with Yellow Pine, and used lumber at that. Nailing is a chore, along with remodeling because the 2x4s are really 2x4! None of these dimensions we have now. Putting up a new wall or putting in a window or door in one of the old walls requires some extra thought on measurements.
I've built several houses in the last 5 years using southern yellow pine for the structural lumber. In my experience you can cut it like butter with a dull saw when green from the yard. I also have a fair amount of experience with hickory and hard maple over the past 5 years, so I know "hard" when it hits my blade or sander.
The house I live in now was finished in 1928. I share Papaw's issue with not having dimensional lumber. It originally had no bathroom, plumbing, or electricity. It was "stick built" using southern yellow pine with hand tools by my g-great and great grandfathers over a period of 8 years. The interior doors are hand made solid southern yellow pine, as is all the finish trim, window frames, built-in pantry, kitchen cabinets, the window seats, and the herringbone ceilings. Virtually every piece of wood, with the exception of the white oak flooring inside, is solid southern yellow pine. Having refinished a large majority of the interior trim, and having repaired siding, floor joists, and decking - I share the OP thoughts and can assure you it was (as my father would say) "hard as a brick shit house".
It seems to me the "new growth" pine lumber you buy today is very different than pine of 100 years ago. The grain is much tighter, closer, it is grown faster, milled faster, dried faster, stored inside mega malls temp. controlled until purchase then BAM! Has many more knots most of which want to "blow up" as you pass them.....all this resulting in really crappy yellow pine lumber good for nothing but being hidden and used structurally IMO.
Does it's hardness come down to age? I have a theory it may harden with age by nature of the "sap" hardening, and that it may have various degrees of hardening based on how much sap. Have you ever tried to cut a piece of southern yellow pine "kindling"? If not, be prepared to sharpen your saw.
The house we most recently left in New Orleans had 150+ year old southern yellow pine flooring - heart pine flooring. It had the most unbelievably beautiful deep orange/rust color I'd ever seen in a wood.
Quote from: rusty on August 12, 2011, 07:23:59 PM
That is, the southern type.....
I spent this week installing partitions in a 100 year old mill building. The fellow running the job warned me up front that the beams were Southern Yellow Pine, well aged.
I then discovered why he thought it necessary to tell me that tidbit. I destroyed 6 phillips bits and a drill bit putting in 30 some odd screws, the stuff is harder than cement...yeash...they don't make wood like that any more.
The odd thing is, I had to chisel out some notches, it splits really easily with the grain, but then it laughed at me when I tried to finish the notch cross grain, my chisel only left pretty little dents in it.....
Now I know why the old timers used it for the beams in the mill....
Technically speaking, Southern Yellow Pine is a Conifer so it is considered a softwood. And Poplar (yellow tulip) is a Hardwood. Has anybody ever figured out that reasoning ???
Technically speaking, Southern Yellow Pine is a Conifer so it is considered a softwood. And Poplar (yellow tulip) is a Hardwood. Has anybody ever figured out that reasoning ???
Quote from: BruceS on May 08, 2012, 09:51:08 AM
Technically speaking, Southern Yellow Pine is a Conifer so it is considered a softwood. And Poplar (yellow tulip) is a Hardwood. Has anybody ever figured out that reasoning ???
"Nuther part of the definition. Soft wood is evergreen conifer; hardwood is deciduous.
Quote from: BruceS on May 08, 2012, 09:51:08 AM
Technically speaking, Southern Yellow Pine is a Conifer so it is considered a softwood. And Poplar (yellow tulip) is a Hardwood. Has anybody ever figured out that reasoning ???
If the leaves fall off, hard.
If they stay on, soft.
This is the general idea, but its wonky here and there, I'm sure.
yours Scott
Heh, I remember when poplar was junk wood for making crates out of...
Now people pay premium prices for it because it has few knots and stains like anything you want it ot look like....
>its wonky here and there, I'm sure.
I think the leaves fall off balsa wood too ;P
Quote from: scottg on May 08, 2012, 07:54:15 PM
If the leaves fall off, hard.
If they stay on, soft.
This is the general idea, but its wonky here and there, I'm sure.
yours Scott
Wonky for sure. Easier to go with needles = soft wood. The dawn redwood drops it's needles. Weird tree...
Quote from: rusty on May 08, 2012, 08:03:22 PM
Heh, I remember when poplar was junk wood for making crates out of...
Now people pay premium prices for it because it has few knots and stains like anything you want it ot look like....
Tricky to stain, I find. Plentiful, sure, but also a common furniture wood, especially as a secondary wood there. Poplar is the most common wood in carriage and wagon building -- just about always has been -- for panels and wagon beds. Out West, at least, it's cheaper than a lot of hardwoods. Cheaper than alder certainly. Cheaper than clear or molding grade pine!
Wood tastes and even fads come and go.
Alder wood has been considered a secondary wood (drawer sides, backs etc) for 300 years in America.
Right now if you order a $12,000 Paul Reed Smith guitar, guess what the body will be made out of?
All the best banjo necks, I'm talking fully ivory bound and pearl inlaid up the wazoo, the very top construction of any production instrument, ever?
...Cherry... American cherry was the premier neck wood for generations.
But maple was cheaper and little by little it became the industry accepted wood and now most believe its the best possible wood for necks.
yours Scot
I have found when I wasable to do wood working that pine was the easiest and nicest smelling wood but once it aged you had all you could do to work it . It seemed to split where you did not want it to. Certan maples were the same way bob w.
Quote from: amertrac on May 11, 2012, 05:38:54 AM
I have found when I wasable to do wood working that pine was the easiest and nicest smelling wood but once it aged you had all you could do to work it . It seemed to split where you did not want it to. Certan maples were the same way bob w.
Pine has got to be just about the nicest smelling wood around! I thought cedar was nice until we had to mill a bunch -- after the first half of the first day, I couldn't stand any more. But pine? Weeks of milling pine were pleasant.
White oak, in my experience, once cured, doesn't like to split at all.