Tool Talk
Wrench Forum => Wrench Forum => Topic started by: benjy on May 11, 2011, 12:41:32 PM
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i thought i would show this hex drive britool socket set as i havent seen any britool on this or the old forum, and some of you guys seem to have an interest in brit tools. britool is probably the british answer to snapon.. old whitworth britool still command a good value
this set is af and whitworth
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Very Nice Looking Set, and appears to be Complete, is it?. I have not heard of this brand "britool", and will now have to research it. Thanks for sharing.
Wayne
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RE ..I have not heard of this brand "britool",
thats really why i put this on as i have never heard it mentioned here. very suprising as its known to be british at its best ..although i believe now owned by facom?
a brief history is here http://www.localhistory.scit.wlv.ac.uk/Museum/metalware/britool/britool.htm
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forgot to mention,,it is missing the extensions sadly,hex drive replacements are hard to find
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Just like lzenglish, I never heard of them. Will have to look them up.
Thanks for sharing, sure do love the case an the speeder
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benjy
Thanks for the Britools (and others) link. I see quite a few different ones on ebay but never bother because they are usually listed in GBPs or AU $.
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your set looks like the one in the 1955 catalog on the link you provided.
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These were called .448" hexagon drive sockets and were not deleted from the Britool range until after the mid 1960's.
(Noted deleted in undated Catalogue 107 with prior page references in Cat 106.)
At this time also deleted was the range of 9/32" square drive sockets series.
Time for pics of a small whitworth cased set I have.
Note the shallow 6 point unplated sockets, I'm missing the 3/16"
(http://)
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One reason that Whitworth, BSF & CEI tools command good prices is that they don't seem to be available anymore. When in UK in1994 I thought I would load up on them for my British Bikes & car. I stopped in an Auto parts store and inquired but they didn't even know what I was talking about. Everything is now Metric. Bot such tools at Boot Fairs (Fleas). Have a beautiful set of Snapon 1/2 drive W/BSF sockets. Also at Fleas you will find AF marked sizes- American Fine(SAE ). Resulting from the flood of US equipment during WW2. Chuck Garrett
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Chuck, No question that British size tool are hard to find and expensive. EBay items are often posted but end up being bid higher than you can buy outright. However tools are still being manufactured by several makers.
A good source (and local to me) is www.britishtoolsandfasteners.com (http://www.britishtoolsandfasteners.com) . Excellent customer service and sometimes bargain prices on closeouts. I needed an inexpensive socket to make a clutch adjuster tool. It wasn't listed online but he did have one and mailed it to me.
Al
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Interesting set. Thanks for starting the conversation. Learned much already.
I worked at a British car dealer in the '60's , I only owned two whitworth wrenches.
The others I needed , I got out of the cars tool kit , or found a metric or SAE tool that would fit.
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Have a beautiful set of Snapon 1/2 drive W/BSF sockets.
Can you post a photo, Charles? Snapmom has a collection of Snap-on BSW...
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I have a lot of Snap-on BSF tools most of which I purchased when I was a tractor and equipment mechanic in the 80's. They have come in very handy over the years working on Brit bikes. A set of short combination wrenches, a small set of 1/4 drive sockets and a larger set of 3/8 drive. Somewhere I picked up one used Snap-on double box end wrench - I don't use that very often.
I have a group of dbl open ends of various makers for back ups and tool kits.
When I got the Royal Enfield I found I needed obstruction type wrenches. I dug through my spare 1/2" US wrenches and found three which I heated and bent to shape. The openings were filed to BSF spec. Those have been a great help to reach the carb nuts and cylinder head bolts. Almost every thread on the Enfield and my Triumph Cub is CEI - British Cycle Thread - mostly 26 TPI - and fit the Whitworth pattern.
The small Ford open end wrenches that are so common - they are approx 7/16" x 1/2" - seem to be Whitworth size and are great to use in a tool kit. There must be a story behind that.
Al.
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I have a lot of Snap-on BSF tools...
Let's see yours too, Al!
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I have a lot of Snap-on BSF tools...
Let's see yours too, Al!
I just gave these away on GG pay it forward:
Heyco whitworth wrenches:
(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac6/chillylulu/Tools%20Sized/AUGUST%202014/HEYCO3_zps42a728c7.jpg) (http://s880.photobucket.com/user/chillylulu/media/Tools%20Sized/AUGUST%202014/HEYCO3_zps42a728c7.jpg.html)
From the responses I don't think that many understand whitworth sizes. My understanding is that the size refers to the bolt size. So, if you grab a 3/8W it would equal a 9/16 sae wrench. Is this correct Papaw?
Chilly
Edit: I measured the wrenches, here are the results:
1/8W = slightly under 3/8"
3/16W = slightly over 7/16"
1/4W = 17/32"
5/16W = slightly over 19/32"
3/8W = 11/16" (disproving my previous theory)
7/16W = slightly over 13/16"
1/2W = 15/16"
I have no idea what this means without further research....
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My W Snap on set is in torage now. My son said he saved it when they cleaned out my house last year. I bot it at Brownie Betar's sale in Florida some years ago. It is 1/2 drive Chuck Garrett
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Well, I said the little Ford script wrenches seemed to fit Whitworth bolts. Maybe not... I tried a nice example and it did not fit the 5/16 BS and it was awful loose on the 1/4 BS nuts. Perhaps the one in my tool kit is worn and fit the 5/16 BS.
Here are some photos - purchased in the 80's when I could afford to buy stuff like this - I was married shortly after this and made fewer visits to the Snap-On truck.
(http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q177/tamalecks/BritishStandard002_01_zps266c86d2.jpg)
7 Snap-On in "script" combi's 3/16 thru 7/16 BS. Used often except for the smaller sizes. In back on left is the Snappy box end marked in Whitworth 5/16 and 3/8. In back are three 1/2" wrenches converted to 5/16 BS obstruction wrenches. A necessity to reach the carb mount nuts and cylinder head bolts on the Royal Enfield.
(http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q177/tamalecks/BritishStandard003_01_zps70002071.jpg)
To the right of the shiny Snap-Ons are four Superslim Made in England - very nice wrenches, two Snail brand wrenches - strong but clunky to use. Last on the right is a Vlchek 5/8 and 9/16 BS. Other wrenches in back are odds and ends but there's a BSA multi wrench that fits spokes.
(http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q177/tamalecks/BritishStandard004_01_zpsdb081980.jpg)
A set of 12 Snap-On (script) 3/8 drive sockets crammed into a genuine Snappy tray, 4BA to 9/16 BS. The 5 piece 1/4 drive set is the later angular Snap-On lettering, 2 BA thru 3/8 BS.
(http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q177/tamalecks/BritishStandard005_01_zps30f7fb25.jpg)
Close-up of a 3/8 drive.
So not much of a collection but a well stocked working tool box drawer. Having these at hand made rebuilding the Enfield almost easy.
Al
The following may come under the heading of too much information:
I can't give speciifics on Whitworth sizes compared to inch. I know some of the larger bolts will fit inch tools nicely. The smaller common sizes like 1/4, 5/16, 3/8 and 7/16 will give you fits if you don't have a proper wrench. For example a 5/16 BS bolt will probably not take a 1/2" wrench, it might take a 13mm but chances are you will not get by with either size. The better made the inch or metric tool the least likely it is to fit a BS bolt.
The similarity of Whitworth to British Standard (BS) is that both are numbered for the size of the bolt thread (5/16 BS fits a 5/16 diameter thread bolt or nut). The difference is that Whitworth bolts have larger heads - hence a 1/4 Whitworth wrench can be used on a 5/16 British Standard bolt/nut.
Most of the threads on the Royal Enfield and my Triumph Cub are British Standard Cycle (also called CEI - Cycle Engineers Institute). This thread form fits British Standard wrench sizes. Most common BSC sizes use 26 TPI - 5/16 -26, 3/8-26 etc.
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"The following may come under the heading of too much information:"
That pretty much sums up everything I post! :embarrassed:
I found the info helpful and one of the best explanations I have heard regarding those Whitworth tools.
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Thanks, Larry. It's not easy when you've forgotten more stuff than you can remember.
Al.
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if you want more here's a link to a little history
http://www.team.net/sol/tech/whitworth-hist.html (http://www.team.net/sol/tech/whitworth-hist.html)
and here is a chart of Whitworth and BS with inch and metric measurements
http://www.samstagsales.com/whitworth_table.htm (http://www.samstagsales.com/whitworth_table.htm)
Bill
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So not much of a collection but a well stocked working tool box drawer.
Nice collection, I'd say!
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The Ford model T at least early on required /32 size wrenchs which were American sizes for W or metric. don't remember which. Chuck Garrett