I have a very common question that comes to mind each time I'm researching a tool. I hit on it today in another thread, "Where would a person purchase a Carter tool in 1923". If I step back two steps, it is a more general question I have with broader applicability.
For those the wiser - will you please explain to me, in a general timeline sort of fashion, how tools were distributed over the years? I'm completely unclear as to when general stores served the crowd, when catalogs came along, when the blacksmith was your only source, mail order, etc. I'm not assuming I even understand all of the business channels, or methods.
It would help me greatly to understand a timeline of how folks have gotten tools over the years.
That is a major research project LOL
I will only help a little with the first, in the 20's , if you were a one man show, you were stuck with the local car dealer, or mail order for anything automotive. (possibly from the manufacturer for something really special)
But, the Larger shops got visits from salesman from 'Jobbers', essentially automotive wholesalers who represented the manufacturers and sold to the 'public'. (Mostly repair shops/garages, and used car reconditioners)
For a long time this was just about the only available channel for manufacturers of auto tools and accessories to sell them to shops....
Eventually the manufacturers got greedy, and tried to eliminate the middleman, as usual, some of this stuff went direct mail order, some of the tools went the tool truck route(which is manufacturer direct), and a lot of stuff went mail order catalog..
Difficult to put hard dates on any of these events, they are mostly slow evoloutions in the way things were marketed...
Thanks, again, Rusty! I can appreciate it was an evolution where hard dates would be difficult. I was just hoping maybe a dart could be thrown at them in general - to help guide me. I thought maybe I was missing out on something everybody else read about in that $200 book.
I needed that "jobbers" explanation. 1930 had me goggling :)
Couldn't have been Warshawky's or J C WhipMe's business plans could it??? lol
DM&FS
I have two Western Auto catalogs, 1924 and 1931. Tools, car parts, race car parts, laid out as well as JC Whitney has been known to be. Starting with the Sears & Roebuck catalog before the turn of the century, and possibly before, people were used to dealing with mail order. One thing that had me wondering for awhile was, they sold tool kits for Fords, for Chevrolets, Buicks, etc. The needful basics, and those 3-4 or 5 specialty tools each make required. These kits/sets seemed to be pushed more than general purpose tool kits. I also have a 1920 jobbers catalog some 3 inches thick, anything you can think of for an automobile, for rebuilding, repair, or fabrication was listed. Tool companies, gasket makers, engine manufacturers, even select rear window glass for touring cars, name it and its in there. Your studying this is an interesting pursuit, a bit of history long ignored. Also look in back copies of Popular Mechanics, and Mechanix Illustrated, which have been published for over 100 years, their early issues are downright fascinating.
This is very fascinating topic for me and I am surprised that it hasnt been brought up before.
I would like to know when tooltrucks came onto the scene that distributed tools to shop employees.
I can say that I feel in the early days location probably made a big impact on how your shop was equipped.
It would be easier for me to comment on largely populated areas since these were the areas that were most exposed by publications of the time period.
I know that in the teens when it was determined that the automobile and truck were not just passing phases ( maybe right on up until some point in the thirties but you will have to re-search that yourself ) shops would in most cases provide the tools for their employees.
They would in many cases eventually go with a caged in tool area, when an employee came onto the job he would go to this tool area request a basic set of hand tools ( which may have been delivered in a tray or small tool carryall box and in return he would give them a small token with his employee number stamped into it.
I have seen these tokens every now and again on flea bay but have never bothered purchasing one for various reasons. Now I wish I had.
Anyway early ( good ) mechanics were not common in the early days ( nor today ) and the employer had little choice but to supply the tools as an enticement for the hiring of a guy that might otherwise think it ok to come to come to work with a big hammer and a 2 by 4.
There was a shop tool steward whom would sit in this cage or area of tools and would make these exchanges throughout the day as different tools were needed. If the tool was not returned than whatever system was being used at the time made it easy to keep track of the correct culprit.
Even to this day some dealers ( most quality ) provide the specialty tools required to do some jobs. These tools are one off tools that are seldom used but when needed are the only way to go.
Also depends on what type of shop, to this day I EXPECT any bodyshop I work for to provide me with a welder, a frame rack and torch set, going back 15 plus years I expected them to provide me with a welder, frame rack, ( or machine ) chains, clamps, comealongs , torch set and a host of other stuff but over the years this stuff is drying up in shops, stolen and not replaced, I wanted to make alot of money still and so I had no choice but to purchase alot of my own equipment.
Now going into a shop nearly half the time they argue about providing a welder and a frame machine ( almost exaggerating on the frame machine but its coming ).
I have had many conversations about welders with would be management, I refuse to bring my welder into work and will not budge on that.
Again it would be interesting to know at what point it became universal for the technician to have to supply even the most basic of hand tools but I would guess that this practice was put into place not in one day but over a great length of time depending on economic circumstances.
I would start to look at tool storage as a possible clue, if these techs were to supply their own tools and keep them secure ( which was a huge factor back then regardless of everyones claim to better or more honest times ) than when did these tool chest of measurable diameter become avail to the general public.
I would look at big name jobbers web-sites, Snap-on, Mac, USA Tools, Cornhole ect and see just when these big name tool delivery trucks came into play as well. I think this will possibly give you a much clearer time frame.
Another thing I can add is back in the beginning schools for auto mechanics were much more common than they are today, schools whether it be home school or otherwise advertised that upon completion of their study one would receive a tool set of various proportion.
These tools provided just enough in most cases to give the confidence needed to walk into Busters Backyard Bodyshop and stand their with confidence to be able to tackle anything.
I look forward to adding more to this thread but I am running out of time now as the sun will be up shortly.
For automotive tools, I can't really say, but for tools in general, you're going to have to go way, way back. Some form of mass production dates back to the late Bronze Age -- the Hallstadt Culture (Central Europe) exported bronze swords before the 8th Century, and was still exporting them in the early Iron Age. Export of bronze fools continued after they were making iron swords -- they didn't export the iron swords, but produced them only for themselves. Groups of iron Viking ax heads have been unearthed, axes that were, again, export.
The Celts of Biscayne made axes for distribution elsewhere very early on, and these evolved into the ubiquitous "trade axe" around the world. These were still in use as late as the 1960s -- a picture in National Geographic caught my eye some years ago, showing one in use in Africa. The pattern called the "Biscay squaring ax" might still be manufactured -- I got a brand new one in the late 1980s. One of these was dug up when archaeologists were conducting a dig at Sutter's Fort, along with a Kentucky bit ax.
An archeological dig near St. Gobna's Church in County Cork, Ireland, revealed a pre-Christian site containing over 100 blacksmith forges. (Gobniu was the pre-Christian Irish god of blacksmiths.) It was obviously a center for producing iron works in numbers that could only have been made for export.
English mass production was in full swing in the early 1700s. Almost all of the American tools in the colonial period were imports from England. One of my planes was made by an English manufacturer that went out of business in 1770.
The earliest distribution was made through trading companies at various trading centers. These could be established communities, or travelling traders, like those who showed up at Fur Trade "Rondevous" or at ports of call. The Vikings, movies not withstanding, were great traders, who travelled as far East as they did West (Kiev was originally a Viking town and trading center in what is now Russia).
The Salem traders had major distribution centers. They were deeply involved with the Pacific triangle (the west coast, Hawaii, and China). Along with the Russian-American Fur Trade Company, the Hudson Bay Company, they had warehouses in what is now San Francisco. By the 1840s they were a primary supplier to California.
People put in orders with Nathan Spear, and later William Heath Davis (who was born in Hawaii in 1822, son of a Salem trader). Since California didn't have a cash based economy, but barter, Spear, and later, Davis, kept extensive and detailed books of goods received and transactions here. These books are still in existence. Spear supplied the three boats that brought Sutter to the Central Valley (Aug 1, 1839). Davis supplied window sash molding planes to Thomas Larkin, around '49. Davis also supplied something referred to as "a wood working machine" that went to Corte Madera. No idea what that machine was, but Corte Madera means cut wood, and it was established to make lumber.
This was the earliest distribution system for tools, and honestly, for all goods -- from manufacturers to merchants who sold where they could make a profit. They sold large and small. Some new inventions must have been sold through salesmen's samples. There was one such sold on eBay many years ago. The fellow really didn't know what it was, but it was a single end tenoner, primarily made of wood. Wooden everything except for the blades, which were attached to wooden hubs. It must have been from the 1820s or '30s, because this machine was all cast iron by the 1850s. I used one once that was made in the 1850s.
Hamilton Baker started in a tent outside Sutter's Fort, supplying whatever was needed for prospectors, around 1849. How they got what they sold, I don't know, but they were successful distributors who became a major hardware company that survived until 1968. Like Sears Roebuck, they sold everything from Billings wrenches to china, and miner's lamps.
We might learn more about the shift from merchant to manufacturer distribution if we could get access to the early records of, say, L.&I.J. White (1837), or D.R. Barton (1832). Warwood Tools was established in 1854; still manufacturing in the US, they might have some records that would shed light on the subject.
Things that pushed forth the distribution of tools would include the development of cast steel, the development of cast iron production, drop forging, and other methods of serious mass production. By the middle 1800's methods of mass production, certainly, made more tools than could be sold by the manufacturer. Burgeoning of mass transportation made distribution less costly and far more accessible. Name recognition became more pronounced, thought Sheffield blades are mentioned in Canterbury Tales (1382).
You guys are amazing in your knowledge.
I will add that the auto parts stores also had tool displays as one of there main items.Probably didn't start untill the 1930's
I have to agree with 1930, about shops supplying specialty equipment. Most shops supply general purpose things like welders, but tend to get the cheap stuff. Then they kick when it gives out, well if its going to break we just won't get another one. You guys want one, buy your own. Which has led to guys getting these giant 6x6foot tool boxes, for their own test equipment, diesel equipment, most guys have those blow molded cases filling the bottom 3 drawers of their 9 thousand dollar tool box. Luckily the dealers have to buy the (special tools), because the manufacturer requires it, Manditory. Problem is if it works well, it either gets worn out, misused and then broken, or grows feet and walks away. Some of the specialty techs, tend to keep them at their station requiring the rest of us to walk around and ask for it, which leads to frustration then buying our own off the truck.
Look at the tool catalogs, Snapon and Cornwell got a good start in the 20s, Mac by the 30s, Matco didn't arrive til the 70s, selling out of the trucks. I know before WWII, many auto repair shops would supply a basic tool kit. Again, usually low end, cheap, broke often stuff. So if you want better, and tired of bloody knuckles, you got your own. Then your own box so they could be locked up. By the 60s, the only shops I was aware that had their own shop owned tools on the wall were gas stations, which simply did not have room for additional tool boxes. I work in a 20 bay shop, ten years old and we are having trouble fitting in these 6, 7 and even 8 foot long boxes. Recently on another forum there was a bit about a foreign car dealership, Mercedes? that supplied new, identical high end tool boxes for all techs. I don't know how they told one from another. Also scared me silly to think your tools are locked up in somebody elses box, especially if it ever went into recievership, goodbye tools. Have heard of horror stories of techs getting court orders to remove their own tools from closed dealerships, and some could not. Even strong arm methods, just so they could get their tools to get another job.
I think that before 1900, it was either store front general stores and hardware stores that put in a monthly order to distributors and manufacturers, blacksmith made tools and in the late 1800s, mail order. After WWI, the auto parts house became a source for tools along with the first of the tool trucks. Manufacturers provided tools from a tool crib with a claim tag system. They ordered from McMaster Carr and other industrial supply houses. They still do. Fastenal, MSC and McMaster Carr are still huge. Back before Shapleigh, Cotter and Hibbing, Spencer and Bartlett, each hardware or general store ordered directly from manufacturers of tools. Mail order did not exist until the railroads were in place about 1885. It is confusing, because when new channels of distribution were added, the old ones kept going.
I think the evolution of tools, Manufacturing & distribution, was based on need, technology & available power.
The wood/coal burning Blacksmith provided for the towns needs, a full time job. (Prehistoric to ~1900). (granted many blacksmith together could export)
Then development of mass production & steam/Oil power pushed a need for various types of distribution systems (1700?-1900).
More available power with gas engines means more output & larger distribution systems were required. (1800 to present)
(and development expanded to other underdeveloped areas still using older methods, thus overlapping evolution.)
check the industrial revolution link, interesting read... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industrial_Revolution
Quote from: oldtools on November 24, 2012, 04:16:16 PM
The wood/coal burning Blacksmith provided for the towns needs, a full time job. (Prehistoric to ~1900). (granted many blacksmith together could export)
The village blacksmith actually came late in the picture, and was dependent on factory produced iron and steel. Iron requires quite a bit of work before it ever gets to the forge -- very labor intensive. Copper occurs as "native copper," that is to say, it exists as an actual metal, ready to work. Iron, on the other hand, exists (except for meteoric iron) as an ore. Early blacksmithing is a group effort in the beginning, and for some time after. The ore must be mined, and then the iron extracted from the ore. Refining even early on used charcoal in great amounts. This was the work of colliers, chopping down forests of trees, carefully stacking the green wood, packing the carefully stacked branches and trunks with sod, and watching for days as the wood became charcoal.
The first product of the refining process is "bloom" and bloom is not workable for forging without further refinement.
Communities were established where ore, wood, and water were in close proximity -- transportation was a major issue here. So too was feeding the workers who produced the ore, charcoal, and the labor required in mining, refining, and then working the metal. For these reasons, early iron work made for communities centered on iron production and manufacturing. So in the beginning, in prehistory, many blacksmiths *did* band together, and produce for export. Hence the more than 100 prehistoric forge hearths unearthed around St. Gobna's Church in Ireland.
The village blacksmith, the fellow under the spreading chestnut, had to wait for the iron producing centers to create enough surplus to export iron outside the immediate area of the mines and and furnaces that provided the stuff of the trade, and for the development of transportation sufficient to distribute it.
Thank you Branson, I remember something about those communities came & went when the wood & Bog ore was depleted...
Pondering on this just a bit, and I can't help concluding there is at least one encyclopedia to be written on the subject.
Prior to 1960 the road from manufacturer to end user followed slightly different routes depending on the good, but all generally went from manufacturer to distributor to wholesaler to retail. Manufacturers so respected the chain of distribution many wholesalers wouldn't sell direct to a customer for fear of loosing the product line. In some cases it was damn near funny when the employee in a warehouse full of TV sets, vacuum cleaners and refrigerators had to go to a friendly retailer to get one at any price less than retail.
On the industrial side many manufacturers had similar distribution and policies. Tools certainly took the same path.
There was also the encyclopedia of most of my advanced education, sitting right there on the shelf in Herb's shop. Thomas's Regional Directory, Midwest Edition. Four feet of hardbound green books with pages about the size of lawyer's pages, 10 x 13 give or take. Some manufacturers, Mine Safety Appliance for instance published damn near their entire catalog in Thomas's.
Long before anybody even thought of an 800 number let alone the computer on the desk, Thomas held the answers to questions an ignorant kid didn't even know existed.
I suppose me reading Thomas's from cover to cover beginning with A over the course of a couple years might not qualify in a lot of professional educators minds as getting an education, but it damn sure taught me to read a lot better, and use a dictionary much more efficiently, and it well might have improved my writing skills too.
Thomas was sort of the google of the 60s & 70s.
I agree with Aunt Phil. If the purchasing department of a manufacturer in the 60's, 70's or 80's didn't have a Thomas Register, they were not properly equpped. It was what was done before Google.
Attention deficit..... jumping from subject to subject,
good morning Guys. :)
I forgot about the Thomas Register! And I was the one who had to research in the damn thing most of the time too. You'd think I'd remember.
I never read it cover to cover,.................. but I read.
I am intrigued with Baker at Sutter's Fort. When did he partner up with Cutting? And start the first glasshouse in the west that only lasted less than a year?
I was introduced to many tools though the tool crib system. I have even minded the crib when it was my turn. School shops had tool cribs when I was there.
Iron casting was glorified little boys playing in the sand.
Trenches dug with a hoe would make channels across the sand to where the side of a wood cook stove (or whatever they wanted), had been pressed into the sand to make an open mold.
When the iron was ready and the clay plug on the crucible was broken, the molten iron would gush out and be quickly directed by guys with hoes into this channel or that and then plugged off when the part was made.
Leftover iron would be directed into a bigger channel(s) and left to harden there.
A pig of iron.
Pig iron later heated almost to melting and hammered to get rid of slag, and make wrought iron.
Water wheels drove big trip hammers while a mob of guys handled the big pig with long tongs.
The history of cast iron (melted once), wrought iron (melted or at least nearly melted twice) and steel (melted with more sophistication) is all about the history of the furnace.
Same as glass, what the hell do you melt ore or sand in? To the point of being liquid?
What can take that kind of blasting heat for days straight??
Melting pots or crucibles were a primary concern. Hard to make from even the most special clay known, and fragile to use. They only worked a few times too, no matter how carefully made.
Some hot work!
Early tool distribution was all about location. Cities had one system. Lots of middlemen skimming off their taste inbetween the manufacturer and the end user.
Rural had another.
and out here in the boondocks?
Well from the Gold Rush we had packing companies. Drunken Irishmen is the gossip.
Mule trains hauling over the ridges into town. They only brought what they brought.
If you wanted a different brand of whiskey? You were free to ride the 3 days to Eureka on horseback (2 days if you wanted saddle sores and bowlegs) and get it your own damn self!
Whiskey came in a barrel. If you want some to take home? Bring your own bottle or pail.
But in case you actually found gold and wanted to celebrate?
They also packed in a couple cases of fancy stuff.
(http://users.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/images/house/valley2.jpg)
See that F in the bottom of the cross? My ancestor. A drunken Irishman with ambition.
No inheritance though.
If the local Indians would have had it together, even slightly, they could have rounded up enough gold to make the Louisiana purchase themselves, and line the Sacramento river valley and Humboldt bay with big French cannon. And picked up Alaska on a shopping whim!
yours Scott
Thomas's in my humble opinion may well be more the book that built America than the Sears catalog. I still have my set from the 1980s tucked away here someplace, still missing one volume. I bought them in an auction one day, sort of a remembrance of time passed. They were still good reading when I had time to pass.
I can't recall if Thomas's was distribued free to users like the Grainger book. I do have recall of Herb getting them by 'fishin em outa the trash' from the front office. Many things in Herb's shop came there that way, perhaps me included. Damn few things left that shop in the trash.
There are days when it's difficult to explain to the generation with the plastic pocket communicator jammed in their ear that there was once a time when there were ladies seated at a wall of holes who plugged a cord from hole to hole so a phone call could be made from the shop to the kitchen via the front office. They cannot understand why it would take 5 women plugging cords to make a call across town, or that there are less jobs because machines have replaced working people.
What the hell is the prize for the generation that looses the most knowledge?
Quote from: Aunt Phil on November 30, 2012, 11:59:52 AM
Thomas's in my humble opinion may well be more the book that built America than the Sears catalog.
I can't recall if Thomas's was distribued free to users
Absolutely not! At least never to smaller customers. Maybe 3M got a set free. But they were "other people's money" expensive when new.
McMaster has never sent me a print catalog either. I have had an old school account with them (order what you want and the bill comes at the end of the month) since the 80's,
but in all this time I never got a printed catalog.
I think I heard it was $10,000 in business minimum.
Fortunately the mine got 2 new ones every year so I could rummage the trash myself.
Lets see, my best step ladder, 12' folding fiberglass heavy as lead but stable!!
("take that thing to the dump!!" ..........but my house was closer, heh heh :)
Grinders, drills, lots of things I still use only needed work to come back from the dead, and live a whole second, (somewhat more sheltered), life.
yours Scott
Scott, were it not for dumpster diving, a skill which I developed a very safe modified fire department roof ladder to better accommodate, I'd have by rough calculation 6000 available cubic feet of space in this building. I tell ya it's pure hell when you have cop buddies calling you to meet them at a dumpster so they can get their share of what they spotted doing a building check. Of course it's not good when they are asking you to meet the nice lady from some animal rescue group, but I always figured that was just paying my dues and did my best to get there quick.
I did over the years manage to develop the ability to ask customers if they wanted us to remove the old equipment and save them disposal costs with a straight face, and some of my former customers still call. That's just old school boys who remember favors done in time past, unlike the current generation of entitled love trophies.
I never had a McMaster book either, but then I also never did much of any business with them. Being based in Rochester for most of the last 20 years I came to know who the supplier was for near any part I needed, and Rochester had at least 100 suppliers till a few years ago. Grainger cut me off the mailing list too after they screwed up my account number and pissed me off.
TRD probably did donate a set every year to the boys prison a/k/a home for homeless boys I came up in till I aged out of government payments coming and got the free kick out the door 1 minute after the Army recruiter showed up. There was plenty of free s#!t showed up at the front door there and truckloads of sucker money as well. I figure I got a real good education there in how the system really runs. I just may have learned a lot they didn't want me to as well. Life is what it is.
The other great educational resource was the catalog rack that sat atop every worthwhile parts counter till the computer replaced paper catalogs. Damned if I can recall the name of the racking system.
Scott asked: " I am intrigued with Baker at Sutter's Fort. When did he partner up with Cutting? And start the first glasshouse in the west that only lasted less than a year? "
I didn't know about the glass house! Got any dates for this?
Like quite a few people, Baker figured (correctly) there was more money to be made, more easily, by supplying miners than by prospecting. The two Studebaker brothers made and sold wheel barrows (hence "Studebaker races"). Several people began farming to feed the miners, founding the town of Garden Valley up near Georgetown.
Quote from: Branson on December 01, 2012, 08:35:18 AM
I didn't know about the glass house! Got any dates for this?
I don't know when Baker and Cutting got together??
1858 is the general consensus on the glasshouse. Baker and Cutting started a tiny glasshouse south of SF, and made glass food storage bottles. Cutting was a big grocery guy and with Bakers distribution???
If you know bottles, they mostly made cathedral pickle bottles. One of the most desirable bottle shapes in history, in fantastic colors every collector dreams of ?? (likely unintentional at the time),
and marked with the first glasshouse on the west coast????
There is only one whole specimen known, still intact. It hasn't sold, maybe ever, but if it did, $100,000 would likely be opening bid and it would rocket toward outer space from there.
Lots of broken ones have been found though. My friend Lou has dug 3 of the broken ones now. (Don't feel too sorry for him. Louie has so many unbelievable bottles he has dug, no one even knows.)
It seems the annealing process was not diligently followed so the glass was very brittle. The "off" colors could have been tolerated, but broken inventory could not.
Glassmaking was a violently guarded secret. Even if someone knew part of it, it wasn't for sure they knew it all.
In a year Cutting was so distraught over the glass quality, he dissolved the partnership and from then on he imported his Cutting and Co glass from back east.
That is, until SF Glassworks and later Pacific Glass got going.