Tool Talk
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Branson on March 10, 2013, 08:45:57 AM
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On another (and not nearly as congenial) list, there's a discussion about vinegar for getting rid of rust. One fellow says it can't possibly work. Two fellows insist it doesn't work, hasn't worked for them. I use it, have for years, and it always works for me. Any ideas why it might not work for others? Maybe there's grease or oil on the surface of the metal?
What experiences have others here had?
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Works for me. Those who say it doesn't work must not have tried, or done it wrong, though I can't see a way to mess it up.
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I use it all the time. Definitely works!
Before:
(http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c180/lbgradwell/ETFPipeWrenches1.jpg)
After:
(http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c180/lbgradwell/ETFPipeWrenches2.jpg)
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May I use your before and after photos?
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Certainly.
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I first used it on a box of drill bits found in a yard. Been laying out at least a year. Lay them in a glass cake pan, poured on the vinegar, then covered it up and took it outside. I really hate the smell of vinegar. In 3 days I checked, and they all have a heavy layer of black crud, but no rust. Washed them, dried, then wiped down with oil. Some of them came out shiny again. Not nearly as amazing as those pipe wrenches, but it works for me.
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Vinegar isn't nearly strong enough to decompose oils and other organics, so , yes, you have to clean the gunk off first. And it's not going to restore missing metal to pits.
It is not exactly a new process otherwise, Vinegar makes pickles, and putting steel in it makes pickeled steel....but modern practice generally uses stronger acids.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pickling_(metal)
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works great for me, may need to wash with solvent first if oily...
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lbgradwell, how long did you soak those wrenches?
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I have only done it once before. It amazed me how well it worked, not to mention its relatively inexpensive!
Later this spring I may use it to help clean some parts on my gramps old tablesaw.
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Someone said to clean with baking soda after vinegar soak to neutralize vinegar acid, any comments on this?
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Maybe it depends on the variety of Vinegar, I seem to remember it working great most times for myself but than others not so well if at all
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On oily or greasy rusty things, I usually let them soak in some kerosene or mineral spirits to dissolve the petroleum. Then a good blow off with air or cheap brake cleaner. I use an old crockpot (the oval shape works best) filled with cheap vinegar set on low overnight to dissolve the scale. The heat speeds up the vinegar action. Vinegar is a mild enough acid that a short bath won't eat much more than the rust- not the case with stronger acids! As well as the health & safety factors. Clear water is enough to neutralize the acid. Anything that I have cleaned this way has needed to be coated as soon as it is rinsed to avoid the flash rusting.
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lbgradwell, how long did you soak those wrenches?
I think they soaked overnight, had a scrub with a wire brush, then soaked for another number of hours before being well-scrubbed again.
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Clear water is enough to neutralize the acid. Anything that I have cleaned this way has needed to be coated as soon as it is rinsed to avoid the flash rusting.
And this is what I do. Any surface that isn't getting new paint gets a spray with WD-40 or the like...
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It has been my experience that you do need to neutralize the vinegar or it will flash rust in no time. The best results I had were pressure washing them after the soak.
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I have never had a problem with rust after using vinegar and I would think I've used it at least 15 or 20, times but it may have something to do with climate as I'm in a fairly dry area and I do tend to give the moving parts a squirt of WD 40.
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Vinegar is less of a mess than electrolysis for me. I do live in a humid climate and use ATF to stop the flash rust.
I have noticed that old chrome in poor condition will only take a short period of time to start flaking off rest of the chrome when you brush off the black crud.
Brian
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Chrome is usually plated over copper, which dissolves rapidly in acids....
Vinegar will also eat nickel plate very quickly...
There doesn't seem to be much you can do when the chrome starts peeling in any case, once it starts, it seems to just come off in sheets...
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Rust removal processes involving acids never cease to amaze me.
There seem to be people addicted to terrible processes like Muriatic acid which not only removes rust, it keeps eating good steel under the rust.
Oddly Phosphoric acid which can either convert rust or remove it seems in disfavor by the informationally lazy & deprived, could that be because they never heard of Google, or because any chemistry more complected than a mixed drink is too complex?
Acetic acid, vinegar is beloved, it removes rust if everything goes right, and if you preclean and if you don't mind damage to good iron. I guess members of the Church of Vinegar never got near a vinegar generator and saw how nasty vinegar is to iron.
So, what the hell is wrong with citric acid if you insist on an acid process? Got filth and contamination, use 2 tanks, the first dip will clean and the second tank will derust.
I'm thinking if I was bound and determined to use acid to screw tools up, I'd go with Citric.
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I use enviro rust and have real good luck. But the oil on peice has to be removed before and put back on sfter. I understand they came out with enviro rust-b -gone which is supposed to be better but expensive
bob w.
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Aunt Phil already said it -- DON'T USE VINEGAR ON IRON!
I've used vinegar several times to take rust off of wrenches -- always worked fine. Then I tried it on a cast iron bevel protractor for a Starrett combination square -- it ruined it. I hate it when I'm stupid, but it sure won't happen again (at least with vinegar).
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Well, lbgradwell's photos put an end to the argument (one fellow insisted vinegar was an urban legend, and that it didn't, in fact *couldn't* work. Now he thinks he might try it.
The big fan club was all for phosphoric acid. One guy liked the citric acid found in cool-aid. His point was that the citric acid in that process was more concentrated -- the acetic acid in vinegar is only about 5 percent.
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Well, lbgradwell's photos put an end to the argument (one fellow insisted vinegar was an urban legend, and that it didn't, in fact *couldn't* work. Now he thinks he might try it.
Cool. Link?
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Phosphoric acid, also sold as Ospho Metal Treatment. I use this when doing body work to Stop rust. works great!! (Converts rust to a ceramic like finish that you can paint over)
per Bing;..
Phosphoric acid may be used as a "rust converter", by direct application to rusted iron, steel tools, or surfaces. The phosphoric acid converts reddish-brown iron(III) oxide, Fe2O3 (rust) to black ferric phosphate, FePO4.
"Rust converter" is sometimes a greenish liquid suitable for dipping (in the same sort of acid bath as is used for pickling metal), but it is more often formulated as a gel, commonly called "naval jelly". It is sometimes sold under other names, such as "rust remover" or "rust killer". As a thick gel, it may be applied to sloping, vertical, or even overhead surfaces.
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NB: Be aware that some of the rust conversion products also contain vinyl paint....
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Be aware Ospho is a complete total RIPOFF hustle SCAM.
Phosphoric is available in a hell of a lot of product, and depend on on concentration can either convert rust or remove rust.
Some converters contain dissolved zinc and magnesium. They ain't worth the extra money
ALWAYS KEEP PHOSPHORIC AWAY FROM ALUMINUM
Rusty you meant to say polymeric coating, didn't ya, relative to Paint Over Rust slop.