So, I'm building that 1840s forge. It needs a bunch of iron, not steel, rivets. Anybody know a source for iron rivets?
And I'm also building the bellows that goes with it. The bellows needs a whole bunch of "bellows tacks" to hold the leathers in place. Bing and Google are no help at all on bellows tacks. Does anybody here know where I might find them?
Probably need to make the rivets.
What do the "bellows tacks" look like? Are they anything like the little sharp carpet tacks about 1/2 long or so? They may work if they are close enough. I seem to find a few every now and again in tool box lots I buy at auction.
Iron rivets versus steel rivets?....if you are meaning true wrought iron, that will be very hard to source in a large quantity. I would guess you will have to make them, if you can find the wrought iron. Otherwise, steel may have to do.
I dont know what they look like but try here http://www.mcmaster.com/#
I don't do black smithing(Its on my list of stuff to do) but I know this company sells them. I do not know anything about them or if they are a good company.
http://www.centaurforge.com/Rivets/departments/224/
I would love to see pictures when it gets started.
Branson, I have two books that have detailed chapters on making bellows .The Blacksmith by Aldren A Watson and a book called Beginning Blacksmithing.... by Robert M Heath, and it was available as a seperate bellows only book. Do you have them as I'm sure you would find them useful. Watson talks about using large carpet tacks. Its been my impression that the large button headed "upholstery" tacks you see on some bellows are only holding on a cover strips "hiding" the carpet tacks?
Rivets. I think you will find that the small diameter modern round head rivet is still made from very low carbon steel.
Graeme
For makeshift rivets I have used nails. Cut to length, easily available, variety of heads, and soft. They usually peen down well enough so they don't look like nail heads. Tried upholstery shops for the tacks? Try an older shop as many of them use power tack drivers today.
Branson, I have four cigar boxes full of those little 10 cent boxes of 50 to 75 year old upholstery tacks. Show me a sample and I may have them.
Quote from: keykeeper on March 19, 2013, 06:33:20 PM
What do the "bellows tacks" look like? Are they anything like the little sharp carpet tacks about 1/2 long or so? They may work if they are close enough. I seem to find a few every now and again in tool box lots I buy at auction.
Iron rivets versus steel rivets?....if you are meaning true wrought iron, that will be very hard to source in a large quantity. I would guess you will have to make them, if you can find the wrought iron. Otherwise, steel may have to do.
I'll have to measure the drawings for the true size of the bellows tacks for an accurate size, but the heads are domed, and appear to be 5/8 to 3/4 of an inch in diameter. They aren't the familiar carpet tacks. I do have carpet tacks aplenty -- I bought big packs of them in #6 and #8 years ago as they were appropriate for 1845 and could be used at Sutter's Fort.
Cascade has 1/8 and 5/32 inch iron rivets. Again, I have to look more closely at the drawings and descriptions to see if these will be correct. I fear they might be too small. I have a couple of stashes of old iron round heads I've acquired over the years.
Quote from: 1930 on March 19, 2013, 07:20:28 PM
I dont know what they look like but try here http://www.mcmaster.com/#
Thanks, 1930. They do have a wide selection of steel roundheads. My co-conspirator thinks the steel rivets would be harder to form (and we have a lot of riveting to do on this forge) but he might be mistaken.
Quote from: anglesmith on March 19, 2013, 10:14:42 PM
Branson, I have two books that have detailed chapters on making bellows .The Blacksmith by Aldren A Watson and a book called Beginning Blacksmithing.... by Robert M Heath, and it was available as a seperate bellows only book. Do you have them as I'm sure you would find them useful. Watson talks about using large carpet tacks. Its been my impression that the large button headed "upholstery" tacks you see on some bellows are only holding on a cover strips "hiding" the carpet tacks?
Rivets. I think you will find that the small diameter modern round head rivet is still made from very low carbon steel.
Graeme
You betcha I have Watson! The drawings are spectacular, and the text is great. Along with Jack Andrews' Edge of the Anvil, Watson is my go-to book for the things I do. I have Bealer also, but the drawings are a bit poor.
I also have Heath's pamphlet on building a bellows -- very useful. The Celtic Knot has a description of building a small bellows developed from Heath's plans, but unfortunately, that site has been hacked and is down for repairs. I wish I had captured the photos while it was up. It was especially useful since the bellows he made didn't use ribs on the bellows, which seems to be the case with the bellows on the portable forge we're building.
Quote from: Branson on March 20, 2013, 08:01:37 AM
I'll have to measure the drawings for the true size of the bellows tacks for an accurate size, but the heads are domed, and appear to be 5/8 to 3/4 of an inch in diameter.
Oops! I just checked a (bad) photo of an original bellows. The tacks on the original are clearly not domed, but flat heads. Pretty certain the heads are 3/4 inch in diameter. They look a bit like roofing nails...
I thought Branson might like to see this. Interesting.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-ANTIQUE-3-level-TOOL-AMMO-BOX-WITH-INSERTS-1800s-early-1900s-/330891040140?pt=Tool_Boxes_Storage&hash=item4d0aa4958c (http://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-ANTIQUE-3-level-TOOL-AMMO-BOX-WITH-INSERTS-1800s-early-1900s-/330891040140?pt=Tool_Boxes_Storage&hash=item4d0aa4958c)
Quote from: johnsironsanctuary on March 21, 2013, 08:28:07 AM
I thought Branson might like to see this. Interesting.
I do like. Thanks!
Id be all over that box if I thought I would give it the most deserving home
Steel rivets are very forgiving. Buttery soft. Unless you are going to do them cherry hot regardless, they will be softer than iron rivets.
Your bellows tacks will be a problem I am afraid. But since you have a forge, I would suggest you make a nail header and do your own. They say a guy can do them in seconds when he gets accustomed to the job.
Maybe buy some cut nails and make a header and rehead to the proper size them?
I like Aldren Watsons, Colonial Craftsmen. I just do.
I got that book early, have had it 35 years or more, and I go back to it over and over.
It is not a highly detailed text, but it always has enough to get you going, and the man could draw.
yours Scott
Yeah, Watson sure could draw! I haven't seen his Colonial Craftsmen, so I better start looking for a copy. Jack Andrews was no slouch at drawing either. Both men were professional illustrators, which might explain why.
Thank you for the heads up on steel rivets! I like it when things get simpler. And speaking of simpler, take a look at the photo. It looks to me like roofing nails can do the job.
Re: Rivets
When I went to Quad-State Blacksmithing Roundup in 2008, there was a guy there with KEGS of rivets for sale. I think they were $2-3 a pound regardless of size. I bought a few pounds, but never thought about getting more. You might check the SOFA website to see if they have a classified. He might still be selling them....he had thousands upon thousands, in just about every size/length imaginable.
What's SOFA? The only thing my search finds is Sculpture Objects & Functional Art. Is that it?
Sorry bud, I should have posted a link!
Southern Ohio Forge and Anvil Blacksmith Association....
http://www.sofablacksmiths.org/
I didn't see a classified section, but maybe if you contact them someone will know who sells rivets, if they still do, etc.
Great group of blacksmiths, the roundup in the fall is a GOOD time to be had!!
Quote from: Branson on March 22, 2013, 08:17:04 AM
It looks to me like roofing nails can do the job.
Ooops my bad.
Edwin Tunis, Colonial Craftsmen
another illustrator
I remembered it as Watson, but I went to check.
Good looking bellows!
Toss a couple handfulls of roof tacks in a plastic coffee can of vinegar, on the bock porch, for a couple weeks........
yours, always simple when I get the chance
Scott