Marsh #400 picture frame vise

[Branson]

I'm bidding on ebay number :    160658691904
I've decided that I need to leave the Stanley 100 where I work from time to time on contract, but I need one that stays in my shop for doing framing for other customers. 

This one's a Marsh.  So far the price is do-able, and ever since I learned here that Marsh built the originals, I've wanted a Marsh.  Wish me luck!

[rusty]

Hmm...

One is a user tool...
Two is a user tool with backup...
Three or more is a COLLECTION - P

Good luck : )

[scottg]

Hope you get it!
 It looks like a crossover model from when Stanley had recently bought Marsh out. Its marked with both names.
  Stanley often did that after one of their usual, Henry Potter of Bedford Falls, type buyouts.
  (Mr Potter is offering 10 cents on the dollar for your shares, down at the bank, .....don't do it!! We don't need Potter.  Here, what do you really need?)
    Keeping the original name on for a while.
yours Scott
 

[Branson]

Hope you get it!
 It looks like a crossover model from when Stanley had recently bought Marsh out. Its marked with both names.
 

Another reason to like it.  Not that I'm looking to collect tools...

[john k]

After looking at the pic, went out and dug out mine.  It is a Marsh, everything cast iron.  So did it end yet?

[Branson]

After looking at the pic, went out and dug out mine.  It is a Marsh, everything cast iron.  So did it end yet?

Ended, yes.  It finally went for $61 -- way outside my budget.

[Lewill2]

Did you see this one?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-E-M-SECKER-Patent-Mitre-Cramp-/330626296547?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4cfadceae3

[Lewill2]

And another Marsh buy it now for $40.00

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-H-C-Marsh-Picture-Framing-Miter-Vice-Clamp-/220874276711?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item336d21ff67

[Branson]

I've never even seen the Secker patent clamp before!  It doesn't look quite as useful as the Marsh or Stanley clamps, but it's a really interesting looking tool.  I learned to make frames using a Stanley when I was a teenager so those are very familiar to work with.

I really appreciate your finding these and posting them here.  As luck would have it, one of the other tool-talk members has one to spare and sent a PM. Should have it next week!

What a great group this is!  I'm lucky to have found it.

[Papaw]

I have considered doing some picture frames for my photography. Would the Marsh be a good one to buy?
I have a backsaw, but probably would need one with finer teeth and a closer set, right?

[scottg]

I have considered doing some picture frames for my photography. Would the Marsh be a good one to buy?
I have a backsaw, but probably would need one with finer teeth and a closer set, right?

 Yes, of course it would. Any design that was made and sold for 50 years or more, is likely to be pretty effective. People will buy dumb stuff only so long.
 
  It scarcely matters how you cut your stock for a picture frame. As long as its not a 5 point rip saw or something, cutting is seldom the problem.  You can't frame a picture from stock straight off the saw anyway.
Well you can, but nobody will confuse it for any particle of professional framing.

 You need an inbetween tool to smooth up the cut and angles.
 Traditionally miter jacks
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Antique-Miter-Jack-45-Degree-Vise-All-Good-Inc-Screw-/290559536852?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43a6b2aed4

and shooting board sets are popular.   This is my buddy Jeff. Best there is. (not that I am prejudice heheheh)
 http://www.cornishworkshop.co.uk/shootingboards.html

 Miter jacks are pretty complex projects and hardly made at home much. Shoot boards however can be successfully made in a long day's work and can use any regular jack plane, wood or metal either one.
  For occasional use they are great. You are planing the angle and taking a light cut so the edges are good.
 
  If you want to do more or quicker, miter trimmers are popular. I am married to an artist. Ex-painter, (now computer art) so I have had one for 30 years. Its a godsend for making up frames.
 Just like this.
Oh this one, is a great deal. The cheezy repros from China cost more than this and I could make you a handle since mine is exactly the same. ;-)
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lion-Miter-Trimmer-antique-framing-saw-tool-unused-mint-/130587020993?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e6797cec1

 But what I really want looks like this.
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/Old-Miter-Mitre-Step-Trimmer-Wood-Trim-Cutter-90-Angle-Guillotine-Ornate-Cast-Ir-/350498409697?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item519b554ce1

 With any of these you can not only cut --glass smooth-- joints, but more importantly, you can slowly sneak up on the cut for the perfect overall length.
 Not so easy by any other method. 
   You still need to rough cut the stock though. With anything, you need to rough cut.
Nothing man has ever made just bites a piece of wood in 1/2 with a perfect miter joint on it. 

 PS. I have a really great miter box (vintage Stanley 358, one of the best ever made), a good chop saw, a fine radial arm saw and I keep my table saw adjusted terribly accurate,
 but still, I need the trimmer for picture frames.
    yours Scott

 
 

[Papaw]

Dammit, Scott! My wallet is not fat enough for most of that.
I sure don't want to bite off more than I can chew at one time so I guess it is still Michael's and Hobby Lobby for me.

My routing skills would need lots of practice too, I bet.

[scottg]

What? A trimmer and a good clamp? Maybe a cheap used table or chop saw? Glass and mat cutter?
   200 bucks more or less, for a lifetime of frames?  Anything you want?
You can eat that up pretty quick hiring someone else.

 Well ok within reason. Hand carved 14" wide stock with gilded rococo embellishments you can't have quick and cheap. heehehhe
   yours Scott
 

[Branson]

I have considered doing some picture frames for my photography. Would the Marsh be a good one to buy?
I have a backsaw, but probably would need one with finer teeth and a closer set, right?

The Marsh and Stanley "miter machines" (#100) are set up for a  back saw.  The #400 is just the vise.  Either one is an excellent tool.  Don't get one of the new clones!  They have replaced the water faucet style handles on the vise screws with small diameter round stock handles, and that loses one of the best features of the old machines -- the big handles spin the jaws in and out quickly.  If you are making several frames at once, you'll really miss the ease. 

I learned to make frames from my grandfather when I was 12 or 13.  He used a Stanley #400 miter vise.  It held the pieces perfectly while we pre-drilled holes for the finish nails and drove them in after the ends had been touched with a bit of hot glue (It was my job to get the glue pot hot before grampa started to work).

Cutting the stock was done on a guillotine miter machine that was a wonder.  Not as pretty as the one Scott wants, but an industrial green monster, though still foot operated.  Sliced the ends to a near mirror finish. 

When I moved away to college, I worked part time at an art and framing store, probably the best in Sacramento.  Same vises.  But no guillotine.  They used chop saws with lots of carbide teeth kept exceeding sharp. 

That's what I use now -- a Ryobi compound miter saw.  Works fine.  A Senco pin gun has eliminated pre-drilling and hand hammering and setting finish nails.  Color putty fills the holes.  Great stuff.  Take a dab of it on the tip of a pocket knife, press it in, and rub it smooth with a scrap of cloth.

Hand sawing the pieces of stock will make you crazy in short order, unless there is no other way to do it.