Hi folks,
    I'm continually amazed at how much waste the USA produces (and other countries, I'm sure.... just haven't researched them). I will actually get depressed if I let a single potato go to waste!  My friend, Troy, halls scrap metal/ cars/ appliances  and anything else you can imagine.  Where I live, there is a "free shed" next to the dumpsters. Persons drop off what they don't want there.  Yesterday, Troy came home with a Bosch orbital sander.  The only thing wrong with it was that the base pad was falling off.  ...  a moment or two of super glue and clamps made the thing like brand new!  What's wrong with persons these days?  Our entire world has become one of a disposable nature. Of course, things are built according to the disposable attitude.
       Persons ask me about my obsession with antique/ old tools......  yes, I love the history, it's an addiction (better then most!!!), but those were the tools that were built to last forever.  I don't think anyone ever anticipated having to buy another tool in their lifetime. Boy things have changed!
cheers,
bird

QuoteBoy things have changed!

They certainly have, but it has been going on for a long time. Our consumerism for cheap and quick is to blame. People want things NOW, and don't seem to be concerned about something lasting years, much less a hundred or so like some of the tools we collect and use.

All we can do is to continue in our obsessions with antique tools that we know will still get a job done.
In my opinion, current warranties are suspect because all it means that WHEN the thing breaks, it will be replaced, not IF it breaks like it used to be. And besides, most are not made to be repaired at all.

Our son-in law is a road side picker, a few years ago he picked up a vacuum cleaner
the problem with it was the discharge pipe was plugged with dog hair.
Our dish washer is a "Roadside brand" ( parts of 3 dish washers )

Ray

QuoteBoy things have changed!

Ain't it the truth!  I looked into replacing my cell phone this weekend.  The young clerk looked at it and said "Oh!  That's very old."  Old?  Very old?? I bought it two, maybe three years ago.   Very old is my carriage maker's rabbet plane, which works just as good as it did when somebody replaced its blade around 1770 (maybe earlier -- 1770 is when the blade maker went out of business).   

It's consumerism like Papaw said, but it's also that the majority of consumers don't know enough about tools to insist on quality, don't know the difference between a $5 made in Taiwan hammer and an old hammer made for professionals.   The very best hammers around today are found for a couple of bucks at a flea market.  The best chisels, too.

Think about this.    A Carpenter back in the good old days would spend a weeks wages for a good quality panel saw,  and more than that for a good set of chisels.   One reason you find old carpenter chests with LOCKS and names on the tools. ;-)

Quote from: BruceS on May 08, 2012, 10:01:31 AM
Think about this.    A Carpenter back in the good old days would spend a weeks wages for a good quality panel saw,  and more than that for a good set of chisels.   One reason you find old carpenter chests with LOCKS and names on the tools. ;-)

Very true.  But there's another part of the equation.   Me and the tools have spent time, a lot of time, working together.  I don't want a replacement hammer.  I want the hammer that once was used by my grandfather, the one I've been using since I was 7 years old.   Tools are *very* personal, and not simply interchangeable. 

I've decided that there are several groups of persons when it comes to tools.  The majority of folks  rarely use tools... they  need a cheap Taiwan Philips and flat head screwdriver, a hammer, a pair of pliers, and that's about it! I guess you could add into that a cheap set of metric or standard sockets.
      As a woodworker, I value chisels, planes, spokeshaves, draw knives, ect.  I look at the cutting iron, knife, blade,  ect.  Then, if it's a plane, I make sure the throat is as it should be.....  on and on from there. I don't have much use for "new tools."   I've found that buying new tools results in crappy blades, plastic instead of wood, lousy hardware, less then perfect wiring, and a total lack of mechanisms to aid in the precision of a tool.
      America----  the disposable nation.    What happened????
I love the USA... don't get me wrong.... I don't want to offend anyone!!!
cheers,
bird

I agree with everything said above.

You guys are right its like america is now a disposable nation. Everything made so cheap an low quailty. Not to mention most people would rather buy something new then fix something old.

Its not an American problem. I'm guessing it is the same in all of the so called civilized world. It certainly is here in Canada.

OK, Mr.Canada,
   if you have full access to a Lee Valley tool place I'm very jealous!!!!  I buy my machinery from Grizzly, and any hand tools, jigs, ect.  I buy from Lee Valley...... the Veritas line of planes, ect.   I have evolved to semi-new machines .....  I don't have enough knowledge to fix older electric powered things. Having said that, I have a 1952 shopsmith that I love!  As I've said, most things with a blade I find from an antique store.  But, I think the best quality you can get for your money is either Grizzly or Lee Valley.
     As for the problems of the world, I think it is ultimately universal. Somewhere along the line humans lost track of what is important.  I'll leave that up to every individual to figure out what's important.  I've not quite figured it out yet.  Maybe some of you have. All the same, hope you are doing well.
cheers,
bird.

Quote from: Neals on May 08, 2012, 10:34:11 PM
Its not an American problem. I'm guessing it is the same in all of the so called civilized world. It certainly is here in Canada.

Thanks Bird. I agree that Lee valley is good. About an hour and a half away so don't go there often
Not familiar with Grizzley. My stuff is almost all from auctions.

It seems like most persons get stuff via auctions or flea markets, ect.  Unfortunately, I have a problem with people. ..... as in, I don't tend to like them!!!!!  Well, that's not quite true..... it's a little more "clinical" than that..... but, suffice it to say I'm better off when I'm not around many persons. My dog puts up with me... I'm not quite sure why. I guess she has free room and board and free food, ect.  She'd probably run towards someone else if she found a better deal.   I'm just kidding. She's stuck with me.  I'm stuck with her. I do love my dog, Bean. (half lab, half great dane) She looks like an anorexic lab on steroids. She's skinny and very tall.  As she grew up, her legs kept growing, and the rest of her stayed the same!!!!  But, she's my dog. I love her. I guess she loves me. ....  she doesn't have much say in the situation.
      However, my dog is on my "shit list" because she seems to be incapable of catching/ killing/ eating  a mouse.  I have a colony of them in here right now. Bean is absolutely no help at all. In fact, she has managed to chew up mouse traps .....  due to them having peanut butter on them.  I'm not sure how she didn't get scared of them....  maybe I didn't set the mouse traps up right... who knows......
I'm pretty sick of mice, birds, lizards, moths, stink bugs, lady bugs, ect. in my house. If I wanted to have a zoo, I would have taken a different "route" in life!!!!! Anyhow, me and my useless dog are doing OK.
    Grizzly is the best company to buy machinery from. In my opinion, they have the best built tools at the lowest cost.....  it's not often the cost and quality are in the same sentence! I have a 9 inch jointer with a 76 inch bed from Grizzley.... I LOVE IT....  believe me, it's been through a lot of wear and tear. If you check out the popular woodworking magazines,  "Fine Woodworking"   "Popular Woodworking"  Woodworkers journal"  "Woodsmith", ect.  ....  most of their reviews will support Grizzly tools.  HMMMMMM, I missed my calling. I should have been a saleswoman for Grizzly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 
        Anyhow, I hope all is well on your part of the earth.
cheers,
bird.

Quote from: Neals on May 09, 2012, 12:32:58 AM
Thanks Bird. I agree that Lee valley is good. About an hour and a half away so don't go there often
Not familiar with Grizzley. My stuff is almost all from auctions.

I've heard a lot of really good things about Grizzly machines, both cost and quality.

Lee Valley?  I'd as soon buy a Ferrari lawn mower.   

>Ferrari lawn mower.   

Don't give the crazy Italians any ideas...
It's bad enough we have yuppie wannabe's driving
green John Deere lawnmowers around their back yard
pretending they are driving combines ;P


(I feel the flames coming on this one already...)

Rusty you are ggoing to have to wait. I'll never get a flame going when I'm laughing this hard.