From an email-(Sorry- the photos are not in the original order)

QuoteA couple of weeks ago I started cleaning up a Champion Forge and Blower drill press (post drill) which I've had laying around for a few years.  Then I ran across a posting on your website by Oily Rascal from 3 or 4 months ago, and his machine looks almost identical to mine (same patent number, and other casting marks).  Oily found a "107" mark on his which he thought is the model number.  My first photo shows what I think is the model number on mine.  I think it looks like  "NO. 197". The second photo is my drill press laying horizontal on my shop floor.  Except for the chuck and belt pulley it looks pretty close to what Oily has.  I have a couple of smaller post drills to clean up and they have the same type of chuck as my big drill.  Oily's is the first taper chuck I've seen.  Oily's drill has a flat belt drive pulley, and mine has a cast iron twin V-belt pulley (third photo).  There was some discussion in Oily's post about belt pulleys being after market modifications to what were originally hand crank drills.  My pulley is marked "DUAL DUTY A18B184."  I wonder if the dual duty reference means it was meant to be both a fly wheel for hand cranking, and a belt pulley for power drive.  The pulley is 18 inches in diameter, which is probably about the size of a flywheel for this drill, and it may weigh 30 or 40 lbs.  I don't have a Champion catalog, but some old hardware dealer catalog MWTCA reprints I have from the late 1800's indicate you could order belt pulley options instead of flywheels on these drills for $5 extra. A "counter shaft" (longer pulley shaft?) option was also available for $12.  I'm thinking a longer shaft was probably necessary for belt adjustment.  I think mine as well as Oily's has a longer horizontal shaft than what was used for flywheels.  A Green River post drill similar in size to mine (drills to center of a 20 inch circle, weight 250 lbs.) was priced at $70 in 1880.   It seems reasonable to think that these big expensive post drills were probably used in production shops that had belt drive available for all of their machinery.  If you had a two or three man blacksmith shop, you could opt for the less expensive hand crank option.  Maybe it's of interest how the belt pulley on my drill clamps onto the drive shaft (fourth photo).  The first thing on the shaft is a collar held by a set screw.  Taking it off does not seem to affect attachment of the pulley.  I have not tried to move the pulley along the shaft yet, but it looks to be clamped tight by a split center piece that is tightened by 3 recessed Allen Head bolts (one is missing from my drill).

There was also some discussion in Oily's post about how his missing auto feed worked.  My fifth photo is the auto feed set-up on my drill.  I've never one of these things in action, so I'm only guessing at actual operation.  There's a brass cam on the main drive shaft which attaches to a push rod, and the push rod attaches to one end of what I'm calling a bell crank.  The other end of the bell crank has a pawl attached which pushes the top mounted horizontal auto feed gear by jumping from tooth to tooth.  The push rod can be adjusted  with a thumb screw along the length of a slot in the bell crank which seems to me is a feed speed control.  The sixth photo is a rotation of the fifth photo so you're looking down from the top of the drill for a better orientation of how it would look in use.  The seventh photo is at the end of the shaft which attaches on the other end to the 4 bar hand feed.  The photo shows the worm gear that drives the auto feed gear.  The knobby looking thing at the very end of the shaft is what I would call a rocker cam that engages the auto feed.  When you use this cam to force the toothed collar (photo eight) onto the gear, the auto feed engages, and the hand feed can no longer be used. The toothed collar is spring loaded and snaps back to disengage the auto feed when the rocker cam is moved to release it. I suppose the pawl could also be flipped back to stop the auto feed, but I think the hand feed would still be inoperable as long as the auto feed gear was engaged.

The auto feed is fun to play with, but looks pretty Rube Goldberg to me.  I'm curious to see if it works, but since they didn't survive to modern drill presses, maybe not too well.  Then again, it has so many parts that it was probably pretty expensive to make, and may be of little use except at hand cranked speeds. 

Maybe you could lure him here in membership?  If not - would you mind PM'ing the email address, or sending my email address to him.  Good stuff - I have the installation of mine on hold pending parts.  The person has clearly studied the drill and it's history.  I'd like to chat. 

He had some trouble with the registration and says he doesn't really want to try again. I'll offer to register him manually and get him in.

Quote from: Papaw on July 23, 2012, 08:03:27 PM

Whoa. You'd definitely want to roll up your sleeves and trim your beard before operating that thing.

Quote from: Plyerman on July 23, 2012, 09:07:09 PM
Whoa. You'd definitely want to roll up your sleeves and trim your beard before operating that thing.

There is a cover that should be present.  See below:

Ahh, that looks a lot safer.

My thanks to Papaw for posting my email for me, and offering to help with registration.  I didn't have anything against registering, but I'm not especially computer literate, or very good in forums.  I always have problems with picture posting and in general don't have much of interest to offer.  Since it was 114 degrees inside my shop this afternoon, I had a little more patience to sit in the house at the computer.

My drill does have the same gear box cover that Oily shows.  In some of my pictures it had been removed to clean the gears.  It looks like there's still plenty of places to bruise and break fingers if you're not paying attention though.

Oily, I don't know much about these things.  Mine just has a few more pieces than yours, and it sounded like you might be interested in seeing them.  I'll be glad to chat with you and show you how dumb I am.

Quote from: Rustn Dust on July 23, 2012, 11:25:46 PM
My thanks to Papaw for posting my email for me, and offering to help with registration.  I didn't have anything against registering, but I'm not especially computer literate, or very good in forums.  I always have problems with picture posting and in general don't have much of interest to offer.  Since it was 114 degrees inside my shop this afternoon, I had a little more patience to sit in the house at the computer.

My drill does have the same gear box cover that Oily shows.  In some of my pictures it had been removed to clean the gears.  It looks like there's still plenty of places to bruise and break fingers if you're not paying attention though.

Oily, I don't know much about these things.  Mine just has a few more pieces than yours, and it sounded like you might be interested in seeing them.  I'll be glad to chat with you and show you how dumb I am.

Hey, welcome to the forum. Not all of us are computer literate but we make do on our little forum here an thats ok. We all learn from eachother here about the tools we have

anyway

You seem to have a nice post drill an deffinitly know your stuff. Thanks for sharring your neat piece of history.

Howdy Rustn Dust - Firstly, I'm loving the screen name.  Good to have you join here.

I did my best to read the model number the day I brought this guy out of the dirt.  It had been laying there face down for years.  I would imagine if I were to re-inspect the drill I would find it is a "197" cast for the model number, and not "107" as I'd indicated before.  I will have a look the next time I'm at the shop.

I believe this is a picture of the original hand wheel for our post drill.  It is 14" and weighs 19lbs.  Whether there were "factory options" available for the drive remains elusive to me.



What I can tell you about mine's service is this.  It was placed into service at a local fabrication shop built in the early '20s and owned by a local oil production company; Kinard Oil.  To my understanding the shop did not have staff, but rather was a fabrication shop for the roughnecks to have access to as they needed it.  My father, who is still alive, can remember it being present in that shop.  He has stated the shop was full of various equipment that was flat belt driven - that there was a central driver - and that belts would be slipped on/off as required to drive the various equipment.  In looking at mine closely, it would appear the flat belt pulley is hand fabricated.  Actually, it seems they may have taken the hand crank and modified it to flatbelt.....crude cuts and welds.  That is not to suggest a flat-belt pulley wasn't available from Champion - only that this one was custom fabricated.  I'll get close-ups and share them.  As a note - I also have the huge Rock Island vise that was present in that shop.  According to my father, mounted on a piece of cedar log in the center of the shop.

The way your sheave is attached is typical of what I've seen of sheaves/pulley attachment.  I'm struggling at the moment to cough up the word for them, but basically a interlocking piece that pins the sheave to the shaft.  I have several pullers that I uncovered that assist with their removal.  I suspect a puller will be a must to remove yours.  In the following picture you'll see many examples of this piece that I speak of.  They are sized appropriate for the shaft and sheave.

QuoteWhen you use this cam to force the toothed collar (photo eight) onto the gear, the auto feed engages, and the hand feed can no longer be used"

It is great to see, and understand, the lowering mechanism and the parts that I have missing.  This certainly sheds new light for me.  Thank you for explaining the auto-feed in detail.  You have me rethinking whether I will continue to hold my project for those parts.  I suspect you are correct about it's being of little use except for at hand crank speeds.  I would imagine it was a simple matter of providing the PERSON with another hand.  If YOU are not otherwise the drive, it's probably a lot easier to lower/raise as required.

 "It seems reasonable to think that these big expensive post drills were probably used in production shops that had belt drive available for all of their machinery.  If you had a two or three man blacksmith shop, you could opt for the less expensive hand crank option. "

Not necessarily. Many smaller blacksmith shops could have had a line-shaft setup to drive any number of "power" tools in the shop, like trip-hammers, large grinders, and even post drills. The line shaft would be hooked into an engine (usually outside the shop) to power it. It could even have been run off of water power, like a grain mill.

The larger post drills such as these could have been found anywhere they could be delivered to. Production shops of the same time period may have had even better tools, like camelback drill presses, lathes, and mills that were line-driven. Check out this video of line shaft power in operation, although this one is not a simple setup.

http://youtu.be/TAJYyy2Dyso


Here's another link about the same machine shop being preserved for future generations to enjoy. http://www.co.greene.pa.us/secured/gc2/history/foundry/foundry.htm

Yep Keykeeper, you're right.  I know about an old small farm shop that has a line shaft setup (no machines, durn it) that I can have anytime I want it.  I think about it once in a while, but don't need any more projects right now.  It has the main drive pulley outside and could have been run with an old hit and miss, or any number of other engines on the farm before electricity came in.  When a kid, I remember old timers claiming to have run ice cream freezers by jacking up a Model T and running a belt off of a tire, empty rim, or something.  I also remember some of those old belt era guys were often missing a finger, or two.

Oily, I know why I didn't know what a sheave was.  Most of them are at your place.  Lame joke attempts aside, your post got me curious about them, and I found there are adjustable sheaves that can be used for speed control.  That's something I'm going to have to work out one of these days.

Oily, I think the term you are looking for is Taper Lock Bushing and Sheave.

Explanation;

http://www.gates.com/downloads/Vol%2053%20No%208%20TL%20QD%20Installation%5B1%5D.pdf

Rustn Dust:

Yep, those old flat belts ran quite a few things on farms back in the day.....I actually worked as a kid for my step-uncle on a sawmill that ran off an old truck engine/tranny. The flat belt ran the sawblade/carriage/etc. of the mill. Good times of my youth, watching all the gears, gizmos, etc. spinning, the noise of the big old blade ripping the wood, the clang of the dogs flipping the log for another cut.

Only bad part was me and my brother had to do all the grunt work, carrying slabs, stacking lumber, shoveling sawdust out from under the blade, etc.

Quote from: johnsironsanctuary on July 24, 2012, 02:46:59 PM
Oily, I think the term you are looking for is Taper Lock Bushing and Sheave.

Yes, Sir!  That is exactly the term I couldn't produce at 3:30am before my first cup of coffee :-)

Quote from: Rustn Dust on July 24, 2012, 02:18:45 PM
It has the main drive pulley outside and could have been run with an old hit and miss, or any number of other engines on the farm before electricity came in.

I have two flat-belt pulleys that came with my '49 Farmall Super A.  I'm told they were available such that one could use the Farmall as a driver in the manner you've suggested.

Oily, you mentioned having to look for a wrench to move the drill table.  I didn't get a table with mine, but later found a complete lower unit at an auction, and had to buy the whole thing just to get the table.  Here's a solution that somebody came up with for that unit (I'm trying to post my first picture).  A one inch threaded rod bent to a crank shape; a one inch nut threaded and welded to the rod;  the gear itself drilled and threaded so a washer could be used to retain the crank/nut in the gear.  I plan to do one differently, but I still would really like to see what was made for the drill if you run across one.  Actually, the nut needs to be 1-1/8 inch for a tight fit.

I've also have a '48 or '49 Super A, but no belt pulleys.  I grew up on John Deers and they had permanently installed belt pulleys.  We used tractor belts to run hammer mills (feed grinders), and buzz saws for cross cutting logs/split logs to stove length.  I don't intend to ever collect hammer mills or buzz saws.  I've been told buzz saw blades are good for making knives and other cutting tools though, and I've laid a couple of those by just in case.