The 'Horizontal' tool is for making rivets :3 That's it's designed function, and that's the function it will be put to as well. You can hold it in the tool, heat up the head and strike it to head a rivet, before inserting it into the piece to be finished.

Works for me.

Just like the tool I have that some people think looks like a pair of pruning shears is really a tool for cutting window rubber. Cuts it nice and straight, stays sharp, has a nice safety guard, and fits in my pocket. That's what it is , and that's what it's for..;P

Quote from: rusty on August 04, 2014, 07:29:28 PM
Works for me.

Just like the tool I have that some people think looks like a pair of pruning shears is really a tool for cutting window rubber. Cuts it nice and straight, stays sharp, has a nice safety guard, and fits in my pocket. That's what it is , and that's what it's for..;P

I've got a neat little deal made by Stanley, takes utility knife blades, works amazing for cutting rubber hose nice and straight. And, really, anything you throw in it that could be reasonably cut with a razor blade.

Quote from: Twilight Fenrir on August 01, 2014, 07:55:24 PM
The 'Horizontal' tool is for making rivets :3 That's it's designed function, and that's the function it will be put to as well. You can hold it in the tool, heat up the head and strike it to head a rivet, before inserting it into the piece to be finished.

I have to call you out on that and I'd like to see documentation for that. Rivet headers do not open on the ends. It looks like it could be used for that, but I've been blacksmithing for a few years now, and have never seen one like that in a shop. Rivet headers are solid, the hole doesn't open up. That tool is not substantial enough to take the abuse that a rivet header has to take to perform it's intended function. Rivet heads have to be flat against the work for proper joinery, that tool would leave a little step due to the chamfer along the hole.

Looks like a lineman's crimper to me.

https://www.etsy.com/listing/191459476/lineman-crimping-cable-crimper?ref=market

Here is discussion on a double style one, they relate it is a wire splicing tool.  http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/general/ot-how-klein-splicing-crimping-tool-used-257902/

Quote from: keykeeper on August 04, 2014, 10:33:23 PM

Quote from: Twilight Fenrir on August 01, 2014, 07:55:24 PM
The 'Horizontal' tool is for making rivets :3 That's it's designed function, and that's the function it will be put to as well. You can hold it in the tool, heat up the head and strike it to head a rivet, before inserting it into the piece to be finished.

I have to call you out on that and I'd like to see documentation for that. Rivet headers do not open on the ends. It looks like it could be used for that, but I've been blacksmithing for a few years now, and have never seen one like that in a shop. Rivet headers are solid, the hole doesn't open up. That tool is not substantial enough to take the abuse that a rivet header has to take to perform it's intended function. Rivet heads have to be flat against the work for proper joinery, that tool would leave a little step due to the chamfer along the hole.

Looks like a lineman's crimper to me.

https://www.etsy.com/listing/191459476/lineman-crimping-cable-crimper?ref=market

Here is discussion on a double style one, they relate it is a wire splicing tool.  http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/general/ot-how-klein-splicing-crimping-tool-used-257902/

Hmm, I don't have any documentation on that... I would guess you are more right than I, however... That's just what I was told by another metalsmith o.o I have one identical to that double sided one you linked, and have been using it to make small rivets. Folded it around the stock, and locked it in my leg vise for wailing on... Seems to work pretty well for small stuff...

Though, I will argue that some DO open up, the common method I know of for making a rivet holder, is to start with two blocks of steel with a small piece of sheetmetal between them, drill holes the size rivet you want to work with, then remove the sheet metal so it has some room to ve clamped in a vise. Would then weld the blocks to a piece of flat steel bent into a U for a 'clapper'  style tool.

If I need a silver or copper rivet I've used any hole I could find that fit the blank.  I have a 1/4" steel plate, 24" square, that I have drilled holes as small as 20 gauge in otder to make rivets. I imagine it is tougher for steel.

I think all kinds of tools cross over to other uses in other trades or are re-purposed.
Brake pliers are among the exceptions to the rule, I think. I'm most likely wrong about those.

I do agree that the original intended use of those pliers was for linesmen. A recent post addressed this. A couple if weeks ago I picked up a pair of the single sided but paired holes version. They have a Bell System stamp.

Well, believe what you want. What do I know.

The tool you describe as a "Clapper style" is more than likely a spring swage, used predominately with a power hammer, but also used with hand hammering, to form a desired tenon size or to reduce stock size from larger stock. The reason it is split is to allow the piece to be turned while hammering to make it all even.

To form a rivet of any size over 3/16" shank size, you have to have 1) a hole to hold the hot metal, and 2) a rivet header, which forms the extra metal of the parent stock into the domed "head" of the rivet. Rule of thumb for material needed to have enough to form the head is 1.5 times the shank diameter, sticking out above the flat of the header.

Not to begrudge the subject, and this is last I will write on it, but why argue the use of something after being shown pretty good information of what it is????

a quote I read this morning, that I find appropriate right now...

"There are two kinds of beginners: the kind that know everything, and the kind that want to learn everything. First group remain beginners for a long time."
-Colin Davies-

Quote from: keykeeper on August 05, 2014, 03:54:42 PM
Well, believe what you want. What do I know.

The tool you describe as a "Clapper style" is more than likely a spring swage, used predominately with a power hammer, but also used with hand hammering, to form a desired tenon size or to reduce stock size from larger stock. The reason it is split is to allow the piece to be turned while hammering to make it all even.

To form a rivet of any size over 3/16" shank size, you have to have 1) a hole to hold the hot metal, and 2) a rivet header, which forms the extra metal of the parent stock into the domed "head" of the rivet. Rule of thumb for material needed to have enough to form the head is 1.5 times the shank diameter, sticking out above the flat of the header.

Not to begrudge the subject, and this is last I will write on it, but why argue the use of something after being shown pretty good information of what it is????

a quote I read this morning, that I find appropriate right now...

"There are two kinds of beginners: the kind that know everything, and the kind that want to learn everything. First group remain beginners for a long time."
-Colin Davies-

I believe I said you were right, and that I didn't know what I was talking about ^^; My information was based on heresay, even if it works for that application, you are certainly right as to its origins.

As for the 'clapper' I had the instructions from AnvilFire in mind:

http://anvilfire.com/iForge/tutor.php?lesson=jdrivet2/demo

Which was a demo on how to make a rivet holder/header. I made my header out of an old claw hammer I cut the claws off of, and drilled semi-conical hole in the face. So as to strike it on the now clawless end. It... didn't honestly work all that well ^^; Still not really sure why though o.o

I like that quote :) But... I have my own favorite on the subject :P "He who has a little knowledge the best fool makes" I certainly know I am prone to that. I'm young, and arrogant at times, especially when I think I know better. I apologize if I came off as argumentative.

time to shake hands and be friends !

Your response shows a lot of wisdom, Twilight.

I claim 85% accuracy on my answers / guesses. That's a good B.

Chilly

Just picked up one of the German Bernard knock-offs this weekend at a flea market, cleaned them up a bit and re-donated them to the Kiwanis thrift sale. The markings on mine were clear:  FALSING Vise Grip // FALSING-WERK / ZELLA-MEHLIS / Germany .

good to see someone doing a good deed for the Kiwanis.

The plier type next to bull lead is for splicing round leather belts like for sewing machines