Author Topic: Hand Planes  (Read 321329 times)

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Offline Branson

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Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #420 on: September 18, 2014, 09:48:45 AM »
Just caught this plane on eBay:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Old-wood-plane-5-/331310962220?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2047675.l2557&nma=true&si=XlXi6Gs7Yr5z5zWFB95%252B2FWoLeM%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

Maybe people were thrown off by the maroon paint, but the knob was really good and if fairly screamed old Stanley.  So I put down the minimum bid of $8.99 and got it.  Tote, not so good, but only missing the horn and not split through elsewhere.  Knob is beautiful.  The blade is a replacement, marked Stanley Patent Pend 1999.  But the rest of it is a type 6 Stanley (1888 - 1892) with nothing broken or bent.  And unbelievably, the blade is actually sharp.   Happy critter here.

Offline Jim C.

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Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #421 on: September 18, 2014, 10:38:46 AM »
Hey Branson,

A Type 6, now that's really an old timer!  You did VERY well for $9.  The front knob alone would be at least $20 if you had to replace it with one as nice as the one currently on the plane.  I like those old low knobs the best.  If the only problem with the plane is having the tip broken off the tote (which happened frequently), then I'd say that you came out way ahead.  Post a few pictures!  What are your plans for the plane?

Jim C.   
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Offline Bill Houghton

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Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #422 on: September 18, 2014, 10:56:23 PM »
I like the low knobs for No. 5s and up, but I find them a  tad awkward for No. 4 planes (and probably No. 3, but I don't have an example of that size with a low knob).  The space is just too tight.

But, with that said, yeah, the low knobs are so much more attractive.

Offline Jim C.

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Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #423 on: September 19, 2014, 08:57:57 AM »
I like the low knobs for No. 5s and up, but I find them a  tad awkward for No. 4 planes (and probably No. 3, but I don't have an example of that size with a low knob).  The space is just too tight.

But, with that said, yeah, the low knobs are so much more attractive.

Yes, I kind of agree with you Bill.  I can see where a person with big hands would come to that very realistic conclusion.  I'm pretty average in terms of physical size so I'm still okay with the lower knobs on the smaller bench planes.  My dad on the other "hand" (pun intended) has rather large hands with sausage like fingers.  Getting a good grip on a smaller bench plane outfitted with a low knob would be a problem for him.  At some point, Stanley went to the taller knob, but I'm not sure why.  Perhaps for the very reason you suggested.  I'll do a little research and try to get a few pictures posted.

Jim C.   
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Offline Branson

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Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #424 on: September 19, 2014, 10:39:23 AM »
Hey Branson,
A Type 6, now that's really an old timer!  You did VERY well for $9.  The front knob alone would be at least $20 if you had to replace it with one as nice as the one currently on the plane.  I like those old low knobs the best.  If the only problem with the plane is having the tip broken off the tote (which happened frequently), then I'd say that you came out way ahead.  Post a few pictures!  What are your plans for the plane?
Jim C.   

Pictures will have to wait on my learning better camera work.  What are my plans for the plane?  Using it!  It arrived with a sharp blade and is all ready to go.  Works just lovely.  I imagine there is nothing left of the Japanning since the surface of the maroon paint is flawless.  With the broken off tip of the tote, and the 1999 blade, I think this makes it a real user.

Offline Branson

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Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #425 on: September 19, 2014, 10:45:47 AM »
I had to go check on low knobs.  Maybe it's because I have narrow hands, but I don't mind the low knobs on smaller planes.  One of my #4 planes is a low knob, and I've used it for, well, decades now.  The high knob #4 came to me  two, maybe three years ago.  My Stanley #3 is still in storage and I cannot remember the knob.  But a couple of years ago I picked up an Ohio metallic plane (right hand thread nut) that is essentially a Stanley #3 C.  I've been using it fairly regularly, and it, too, has a low knob.

Offline Jim C.

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Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #426 on: September 19, 2014, 11:53:00 AM »
Hey Branson,
A Type 6, now that's really an old timer!  You did VERY well for $9.  The front knob alone would be at least $20 if you had to replace it with one as nice as the one currently on the plane.  I like those old low knobs the best.  If the only problem with the plane is having the tip broken off the tote (which happened frequently), then I'd say that you came out way ahead.  Post a few pictures!  What are your plans for the plane?
Jim C.   

Pictures will have to wait on my learning better camera work.  What are my plans for the plane?  Using it!  It arrived with a sharp blade and is all ready to go.  Works just lovely.  I imagine there is nothing left of the Japanning since the surface of the maroon paint is flawless.  With the broken off tip of the tote, and the 1999 blade, I think this makes it a real user.

That's what I like to hear.  I kind of figured that would be your answer.  Use it, take care of it, and eventually pass it on to the next guy who will hopefully do the same.

Jim C.
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Offline Branson

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Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #427 on: September 20, 2014, 07:45:31 AM »
That's what I like to hear.  I kind of figured that would be your answer.  Use it, take care of it, and eventually pass it on to the next guy who will hopefully do the same.
Jim C.

Yeah, that's me pretty much.  I have one tool that I'll never use -- a Neolithic stone ax.   There's a #271 router, still in box, and never actually sharpened that I did buy to use, but I haven't touched it.  Probably won't.  Every other tool earns its living here.

Offline Jim C.

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Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #428 on: September 20, 2014, 08:10:17 AM »
That's what I like to hear.  I kind of figured that would be your answer.  Use it, take care of it, and eventually pass it on to the next guy who will hopefully do the same.
Jim C.

Yeah, that's me pretty much.  I have one tool that I'll never use -- a Neolithic stone ax.   There's a #271 router, still in box, and never actually sharpened that I did buy to use, but I haven't touched it.  Probably won't.  Every other tool earns its living here.

I'd like to hear the story behind that ax.  I know it's not a hand plane, and I'm really trying to keep the thread on track in terms of subject matter, but a real stone ax sounds very interesting!  Pictures are always welcome.

Jim C.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2014, 08:36:46 AM by Jim C. »
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Offline Jim C.

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Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #429 on: September 20, 2014, 08:25:20 AM »
Based on our discussion from yesterday morning, I went out to the shop last night and pulled out a few planes with short and tall knobs.  The planes depicted in the first photo are Stanley #3 size planes, while those in the second photo are Stanley #4 size planes.  The last photo is a group shot with the #3s on the right and the #4s on the left.  It's easy to see why someone with bigger hands might prefer the tall knobs on the smaller bench planes (sizes #1 - #4).

When Stanley started making bench planes back in the 1870s they were produced with the short/low knobs.  To me, they resemble hot air balloons or possibly mushrooms.  I personally like the way they look as opposed to the taller knobs which came later.  Perhaps someone at Stanley who was in a position of authority decided that the knobs were too short, and as such, difficult for some people to grip, or that the tall knobs looked better and were easier to grip.  Maybe both or neither reason is correct, or some combination of the two.  I don't know for sure.  What I can say is that the knob change took place somewhere right around 1919, when Type 12 bench planes were being manufactured.  Stanley made several changes/improvements to that version of their bench plane.  Switching from the short knob to the tall knob was one of them.  Deciding which one is preferable is a matter personal opinion.

Jim C.   
« Last Edit: September 22, 2014, 09:52:38 AM by Jim C. »
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Offline Jim C.

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Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #430 on: September 24, 2014, 10:12:35 PM »
After adding a short post to the thread concerning Stanley bench plane knobs, I got to thinking that I should post a couple pictures of knobs that were found on larger bench planes like the #7 size and #8 size jointers.  The photos below depict the larger size bench plane knobs on the left as compared to #3 size bench plane knobs on the right.  There's certainly a difference.  Generally speaking, the taller knobs probably make more sense in terms of comfort, usability and functionality, for not only smaller bench planes, but for the larger bench planes as well.  As for appearance alone, I'm still going with the short knobs.

Jim C.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2014, 10:17:16 PM by Jim C. »
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Offline mikeswrenches

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Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #431 on: September 25, 2014, 10:32:08 AM »
The supposed reason that Stanley went to the tall knob was to eliminate chipping where the base of the knob met the bed.  This was done ca. 1920 and didn't work very well, given that the taller knob gave you even more leverage so that it was even easier to chip the base of the knob.

Recognizing this flaw, they corrected it ca. 1929-1930 by casting a ring in the bed to support the base of the knob.  This did work and eliminated the base chipping problem.

If you have to replace a tall knob be aware there are two types.  The one that goes in the ring has a tapered bottom to allow it to properly fit the ring, the original ones are straight.

Note:  This information came from work done by Roger Smith and Pat Leach.

Mike
« Last Edit: September 25, 2014, 10:35:02 AM by mikeswrenches »
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Offline Jim C.

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Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #432 on: September 25, 2014, 12:18:43 PM »
Thanks Mike!  Great details!  I'm glad you jumped in.

Jim C.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2014, 06:52:44 PM by Jim C. »
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Offline Jim C.

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Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #433 on: September 28, 2014, 06:47:44 PM »
Earlier today I was out in the shop looking for a plane to feature, and realized that I hadn’t yet said anything about one the most popular bench plane sizes, the #5 jack.  This one size might be fighting it out with the #4 as the most common, yet most useful bench plane.  It could be a toss up.  Anyone who spends any time at all doing wood working, whether it be rough construction type work, or fine cabinet making, should own a #5 sized bench plane.   Depending on the nature of the work at hand, and how the plane is set up, the #5 jackplane (or “jack of all trades”) excels at jointing short to medium length boards, smoothing medium and larger sized surfaces, and dimensioning stock.  I’ve seen some that were in tough shape with widened throats and arced cutting irons that were used as scrub planes.  Based on its length (usually about 14 inches) and two inch wide cutting iron, it really is the jack of all trades.  Jackplanes are very common and extremely useful.  They’re not normally expensive either.  For that reason alone, get a couple and dedicate them to specific tasks.  I have two that I use frequently.  One is set up for initially flattening the scalloped surface left behind by a scrub plane, and the other is set up for making one last fine pass on the edge of a board that’s ready to be joined to another board.

Stanley #5:

One of Stanley’s staples, the #5 was in continuous production from 1867 well into the 1980s.  There must be literally millions of them out there in various states of condition.  Since one can find a #5 almost anywhere, I thought I’d feature one that’s in top NOS (New Old Stock) condition.  The plane depicted below is a Type 16 that was manufactured by Stanley between 1933 and 1941.  It’s enormously common but extremely rare in this condition.  This particular plane and its original packaging is a virtual time capsule that dates back 70 - 80 years, giving us an accurate look at what Stanley was producing in terms of quality, fit, finish, etc. during that time period.  It still retains its factory grind on the cutting iron, and from what I can tell, has never been used even one time.  All of its finishes are 100% intact.  At this stage of the game, it’s really just a tool for study and benchmarking.  The collector in me will never allow for the use of this plane while it’s in my care.  Someday it will be passed on to someone else.  I hope its next owner sees its historic value and significance. 

While re-assembling the plane, I remembered that Mike (see reply #431 above) made a few good points about the evolution of Stanley’s front knobs, and the addition of a ring on the body casting to prevent chipping/cracking of the front knob while under stress.  If you take a close look at the last picture, you’ll see what Mike was referring to.   See the raised ring around the milled screw boss?  The base of the front knob fits perfectly between the two features on the casting.  Thanks again Mike!

Jim C.           
« Last Edit: September 28, 2014, 08:56:29 PM by Jim C. »
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Offline Branson

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Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #434 on: October 02, 2014, 10:17:30 AM »
> I have two that I use frequently.  One is set up for initially flattening the scalloped surface left behind by a scrub plane, and the other is set up for making one last fine pass on the edge of a board that’s ready to be joined to another board.

So it's OK for me to have four Stanley #5 planes?  I just checked my stash and not one has the raised ring, even though one has the tall knob.  That one and a #5C were $1 garage sale finds, btw.  Another is in process of rehabilitation.  I picked up a flawless #5 base a couple of years ago.  Still need a few parts to make a whole plane of it.