Author Topic: Hand Planes  (Read 321389 times)

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Offline Jim C.

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Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #630 on: December 11, 2016, 06:16:53 PM »
It's snowing pretty good here so I spent the afternoon out in the shop working on a small walnut slab coffee table.  The legs and stretchers are maple.  I had to do a little trimming on some maple end grain with one of my favorite block planes.  I have it set for a light pass and the iron is super sharp..... There's nothing like a few good hours out in the shop.

Jim C.
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Online Bill Houghton

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Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #631 on: December 12, 2016, 09:23:06 AM »
Jim,

About the stability of the long transitional planes: I got rid of that twisted Stanley, but last summer I got, for free on the giveaway day of a contractor's retirement sale*, a Sargent transitional jointer, 30" long, that appears to be pretty close to straight (it went into storage, awaiting its turn for attention).  As you know, warp in wood can come about from instability in the wood or poor storage conditions, so my new-to-me transitional is resting on top of three 3/4" stickers on a mechanic's rollaway with a close-enough flat top.  Cast iron can go warpy, too, although less so than wood; at least with wood, the average home mechanic can correct the warp.
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*That was a heck of a sale.  I got a Sweetheart era Stanley No. 7 jointer and a Columbian bench vise for $5 each on the first day, and some other stuff that can't be named because I can't remember.  When I went back on the second, giveaway day, in addition to the Sargent plane, I got a set of Starrett 50A trammel points (missing the pencil holder) and a bunch of miscellaneous stuff.

Offline Jim C.

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Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #632 on: December 12, 2016, 04:41:18 PM »
Jim,

About the stability of the long transitional planes: I got rid of that twisted Stanley, but last summer I got, for free on the giveaway day of a contractor's retirement sale*, a Sargent transitional jointer, 30" long, that appears to be pretty close to straight (it went into storage, awaiting its turn for attention).  As you know, warp in wood can come about from instability in the wood or poor storage conditions, so my new-to-me transitional is resting on top of three 3/4" stickers on a mechanic's rollaway with a close-enough flat top.  Cast iron can go warpy, too, although less so than wood; at least with wood, the average home mechanic can correct the warp.
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*That was a heck of a sale.  I got a Sweetheart era Stanley No. 7 jointer and a Columbian bench vise for $5 each on the first day, and some other stuff that can't be named because I can't remember.  When I went back on the second, giveaway day, in addition to the Sargent plane, I got a set of Starrett 50A trammel points (missing the pencil holder) and a bunch of miscellaneous stuff.

Hi Bill,

Thanks for checking in.  You know, another guy once told me that cast iron planes can warp.  I guess I didn't give it much thought at the time because none of my "user" planes had contorted or become misshaped...... at least not enough for me to notice.  I would imagine a cast iron plane could be knocked out of whack if it were dropped or abused in some way, or if it was exposed to extreme heat.  I'm definitely no cast iron authority.  I know (or thought) for instance that old Stanley's were not necessarily dead flat from the factory.  There's occasionally high and low spots on a plane's sole that become apparent with just a little lapping.  Do you think those imperfections naturally occurred in the cast iron after being manufactured, but not because of the manufacturing process?   If a component like the level cap, or frog, was over tightened and it put undue pressure somewhere, then the plane was left to sit for decades under stress, warping could occur.  Yes? No?  Usually, at least from my experience, cast iron parts that are over tightened to such a degree, just crack.

In response to your comments about getting great deals on a few planes last summer, well, let's see what you got!  How about a few pictures?  You can't just leave us hanging, and although I'd like to keep the thread mostly dedicated to hand planes and associated topics, you got a Colombian vise for five dollars?  I'm envious.      :angry:

Jim C.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2016, 07:07:51 AM by Jim C. »
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Online Bill Houghton

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Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #633 on: December 12, 2016, 08:29:48 PM »
I got the vise; haven't had time to install it.

Offline Jim C.

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Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #634 on: December 13, 2016, 07:14:01 AM »
I got the vise; haven't had time to install it.

In my continual hunt for hand planes, I'm always on the lookout for a quality old vise (a Wilton bullet would be nice) and an arbor press.  Good ones are about as easy to find as an old Stanley still in the box!

Jim C. (Who's still envious..... )
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Offline Jim C.

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Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #635 on: December 23, 2016, 10:33:46 AM »
Hi Hand Plane Enthusiasts,

You might recall that I was going to add a post regarding the two Bedrock frog designs.  Well, I finally got to it, so if you go back to page 42, reply 624, it's there for your review......

Finally, I'd like to wish you all a very Merry Christmas and a Happy New Yew with family and friends.

Jim C.
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Offline john k

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Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #636 on: December 23, 2016, 08:29:21 PM »
Jim, Be very careful in searching for old vises.  I had a worn vise, and went to an auction, came home with 3 more, auctioneer said all for the money.  Took two damaged ones home from work,  that they had tossed out back.   Then dug dads blacksmith post vise out of the barn, and found he had stashed a 5 inch post vise in there too.   Then the junk shop in town had a post vise for sale.  The big "barrel"  part with the female threads is cast in bronze, had to have it.   Stopped at a tiny antique shop, literally tripped over another one, post vise, jaws almost six inches, got it cheap.  Owner said he couldn't hardly move it, it scales at 122lbs.  Then got a couple of little bench vises at a house sale for a buck.   Started counting one day and I'm up to 13, and didn't dig under the bench in the barn.  I think I have enough.  They creep up on one.
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Offline kwoswalt99

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Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #637 on: December 24, 2016, 01:09:06 AM »
Jim, Be very careful in searching for old vises.  I had a worn vise, and went to an auction, came home with 3 more, auctioneer said all for the money.  Took two damaged ones home from work,  that they had tossed out back.   Then dug dads blacksmith post vise out of the barn, and found he had stashed a 5 inch post vise in there too.   Then the junk shop in town had a post vise for sale.  The big "barrel"  part with the female threads is cast in bronze, had to have it.   Stopped at a tiny antique shop, literally tripped over another one, post vise, jaws almost six inches, got it cheap.  Owner said he couldn't hardly move it, it scales at 122lbs.  Then got a couple of little bench vises at a house sale for a buck.   Started counting one day and I'm up to 13, and didn't dig under the bench in the barn.  I think I have enough.  They creep up on one.


The people at GJ would say 13 is not nearly enough. :grin:

Offline Jim C.

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Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #638 on: December 24, 2016, 02:26:34 PM »
Jim, Be very careful in searching for old vises.  I had a worn vise, and went to an auction, came home with 3 more, auctioneer said all for the money.  Took two damaged ones home from work,  that they had tossed out back.   Then dug dads blacksmith post vise out of the barn, and found he had stashed a 5 inch post vise in there too.   Then the junk shop in town had a post vise for sale.  The big "barrel"  part with the female threads is cast in bronze, had to have it.   Stopped at a tiny antique shop, literally tripped over another one, post vise, jaws almost six inches, got it cheap.  Owner said he couldn't hardly move it, it scales at 122lbs.  Then got a couple of little bench vises at a house sale for a buck.   Started counting one day and I'm up to 13, and didn't dig under the bench in the barn.  I think I have enough.  They creep up on one.

Hi John,

Thanks for the word of caution.  If all your vises were hand planes, I'd say you were right on track.  It's probably safe to say that we're all hand tool enthusiasts of some sort.  The fascinating thing to me is how people (including me) lock into a certain type, brand, etc., of tool.  For me it's hand planes.  I also like Craftsman =V= tools too, and then there's those Williams obstruction wrenches which recently caught my attention...... It sounds like you go all in for vises.  I know for sure you're not alone.  Right now I don't think I'd get hooked on vises, but a few years ago I didn't see myself getting hooked on Craftsman =V= tools either.  For years, I was fully and exclusively committed to Stanley hand planes.  That was it.  Over the last two years or so, however, I went on a MAJOR Craftsman =V= tool binge.  I slowed down a little, but I haven't completely stopped.   Anyway, I'd like to track down a nice (preferably unrestored) Wilton bullet vise to use.  Who knows what that might trigger?  One might lead to another, and another......  I'm willing to risk it!

Jim C.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2017, 07:56:15 PM by Jim C. »
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Offline Jim C.

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Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #639 on: December 24, 2016, 02:29:18 PM »
Jim, Be very careful in searching for old vises.  I had a worn vise, and went to an auction, came home with 3 more, auctioneer said all for the money.  Took two damaged ones home from work,  that they had tossed out back.   Then dug dads blacksmith post vise out of the barn, and found he had stashed a 5 inch post vise in there too.   Then the junk shop in town had a post vise for sale.  The big "barrel"  part with the female threads is cast in bronze, had to have it.   Stopped at a tiny antique shop, literally tripped over another one, post vise, jaws almost six inches, got it cheap.  Owner said he couldn't hardly move it, it scales at 122lbs.  Then got a couple of little bench vises at a house sale for a buck.   Started counting one day and I'm up to 13, and didn't dig under the bench in the barn.  I think I have enough.  They creep up on one.


The people at GJ would say 13 is not nearly enough. :grin:

I've been over there and you're absolutely right.  There's a few guys who have some serious vise collections.

Jim C.  (Who "thinks" he could stop at one Wilton bullet)
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Offline Yadda

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Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #640 on: December 24, 2016, 05:27:20 PM »
I was cleaning up my father's shop.  I found a post vise in the corner.  I remember mentioning that I would like to own one.  I suspect he ran across it and brought it home to give to me or sell it to me.  Either way it is now mine.  I brought it home.  I haven't had time to look at it or clean it.  Dad died the day after Christmas last year. I purchased all of his woodworking tools from Mom.  Of all of the tools, I cherish that rusty old post vise the most
You might say I have a tool collecting problem....

Offline Jim C.

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Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #641 on: December 25, 2016, 03:15:16 PM »
I was cleaning up my father's shop.  I found a post vise in the corner.  I remember mentioning that I would like to own one.  I suspect he ran across it and brought it home to give to me or sell it to me.  Either way it is now mine.  I brought it home.  I haven't had time to look at it or clean it.  Dad died the day after Christmas last year. I purchased all of his woodworking tools from Mom.  Of all of the tools, I cherish that rusty old post vise the most

Hi Yadda,

It's great that you were able to hang on to your dad's woodworking tools.  I hope my kids will hold on to some of my tools and machines when I'm gone.  As a woodworker, I'm guessing your dad probably had a few hand planes in his tool arsenal.  If so, tell us what he had.  Pictures would be great too!

Jim C.

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« Last Edit: December 25, 2016, 03:18:46 PM by Jim C. »
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Online Bill Houghton

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Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #642 on: December 25, 2016, 03:15:36 PM »
Yadda,

As time goes along, you'll find yourself thinking of him every time you use one of his tools.  Dad's been gone for 12 years, and my Uncle Charlie, from whom I inherited a lot of tools, even longer; and I still thank them when I'm using one of their tools.

Offline Jim C.

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Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #643 on: January 02, 2017, 07:07:45 PM »
Happy New Year to everyone and I hope you all enjoyed a great holiday season with friends and family.  I have several topics I’d like to cover in 2017.  I’m not sure how many I’ll get to, but I’ll try to hit as many as I can between now and 2018.  As always, I HIGHLY ENCOURAGE you to jump into the conversation at any time and to post some pictures, etc.  I’d like to keep the content as close to hand planes as possible, but if we veer off course a little bit, that’s okay too.

Chasing Parts:

If you’ve been following the thread with any regularity, you’ve heard me say that I frequently receive old planes (and a few other tools) from family, friends, neighbors, co-workers, etc.  Over the years I’ve received dozens of old hand planes and I accept them all with sincere gratitude and many thanks.  Unfortunately, more often than not, many of the old planes I receive never really make it back to work.  Some are just too far gone in terms of condition/damage incurred, and others sit neglected in storage boxes out in my shop for another reason……  MISSING PARTS!!!!

Seldom do I receive an old plane that’s not without some issues.  Missing and/or broken parts is commonly the problem.  While it’s always nice to receive an old tool for free, I’ve found that very few of them really are free.  There are always exceptions however.  You may recall a Stanley #6C that I received from my uncle a couple summers ago. (See page 26, reply 379)  Although it had incurred some minor damage over the years, it was still in good working order and complete with all of its original vintage correct parts.  With some well applied elbow grease and a dose of TLC on a rainy Saturday afternoon, the plane was good to go in a few hours.  Thankfully I didn’t have to chase parts and spend a lot of money to make it “right” again.  I guess “right” has different meanings to different people.  In my case, “right” means undamaged parts that are manufacturer and vintage correct.  That adds another level of complication to the situation.  Stanley and other manufacturers were actually pretty good about making parts that would fit and work on planes that were separated by many decades.  Plane irons are an obvious example.  An iron produced for a common #4 in 1900 will also work on a #4 made in 1950.  That probably works for rational people and that makes things “right.”  Then there are those of us with OCD who think, not only must the iron fit the plane but the iron must also be vintage correct.  Suddenly the logo on the iron matters too.  In my insane mind, logos can be differentiated and it’s one of the first things I look at when evaluating a “user” or “collector” quality plane.  Do the parts match?  Are they all the correct vintage?  Over the years logos changed, lever caps were redesigned, the shapes of totes and knobs were slightly restyled, hardware (screws, nuts, spurs,) changed.  Finding some of these parts can be difficult and expensive.  That's why I don't like chasing parts.

Not too long ago, I talked about acquiring a Stanley #608 from a former co-worker.  (See page 41, reply 600 and page 42, reply 623) The plane was given to me for “free” and I was happy to have it.  It had a few issues, but I thought it would be worth saving from the dreaded boxes of other parts planes sitting in the corner of my shop.  Well, it became the most expensive free plane I ever received.  It was missing its knob, the rear tote was badly cracked in a couple places, the lever cap was broken and repaired, and the iron was badly pitted and unmarked (no logo).  In the end, after some searching, I found vintage correct parts (except for the lever cap) and paid a total of $115 for them! (Knob and correct hardware $20, Tote and correct hardware $25, correct iron $25, almost correct lever cap $45)  Yikes!!!  The cost of spare parts can add up quickly.  And don’t forget to factor in shipping costs.  Part of my problem is a sense of responsibility I have to try and preserve old tools that are given to me.  I hate to be the one who scraps a 100 year old tool.  On the other hand, that #608 taught me a lesson.  At some point one needs to know when enough is enough.  Now when I receive an old plane in need of parts, I'm VERY picky about how far I'll go (that means how much I'll spend) to fix it.  Anyway.....

If you take a look below, included are a few photos providing some examples of the planes I’ve received over the years.  This is just a small sampling of the things you may encounter when “free” planes come your way.  Be critical of the planes before you start putting good money into them.  Ask yourself, "Are parts available?  Are parts expensive?  Will I spend more on parts versus just waiting for a complete example to show up?"  What I've found is that very few of the planes I receive from people are uncommon.  They were basic planes used by individuals to get the job done.  Therefore, there's tons of good used COMPLETE examples still out there.  More and more, the used planes I receive that are in need of parts, become "parts planes" themselves.  While there is some satisfaction in rehabbing an old plane, time and economics now have some influence on my decision to go forward or not.  Let's look at a few pictures.  (It should be noted that the planes and parts depicted below are in the same condition they were in when I received them.)

The first photo depicts two common bench planes.  Notice the plane in the background is missing its double iron assembly and lever cap, while the plane in the fore ground is missing its knob but strangely enough, the screw is still there. The tote is clearly attached to the body with unusual, and probably not manufacturer original hardware.  It’s really unlikely that I’m going to chase any of those parts to correct the problems.  Neither plane really warrants the time or expense.

The second photo is probably the least complete plane I ever received.  A co-worker recently told me his father had an old hand plane in his tool box.  My associate didn’t want it and asked if I was interested.  I think I said something like “Sure! I’d be glad to have it.”  He said the plane might be missing a few parts, but he’d give it to me anyway.  I wish he had told me it was missing parts before I said I’d take it.  Anyway, the second photo sums up EXACTLY what my co-worker gave me.  Nothing more. Nothing less.  I guess he did say it was missing a few parts.  I'm pretty sure I could buy a complete example in good used condition for less than the cost of buying all the parts necessary to essentially rebuild the plane.

Looking at the third and fourth photos, one will see that the plane's frog was altered at some point and for reasons I can’t even imagine.  Notice how the screw that adjusts the lever cap tension extends all the way through the frog.  Normally, the screw is threaded into the frog and can be adjusted with a turn of a screwdriver.  Never have I seen that screw pass all the way through the frog, and I don't think I've seen a manufacturer use a square nut to secure anything on a plane.  Upon further examination with a flashlight and magnifying glass from my kit (See page 35, reply 516), it’s clear the hole was drilled larger by someone for some reason.  Inside the hole, remnants of the original threads still exist as applied most probably by the manufacturer.  It’s doubtful that I’ll go “frog hunting” any time soon.  Frog assemblies tend to be expensive.

In the immediately following post I added a few more photos of parts related issues that are not uncommon.  Remember the broken and repaired lever cap from that Stanley #608?  I'm still looking for a vintage correct example, and already paid $45 for one that's almost right.  And the two cracked totes next to it are more often the rule than not when old planes come my way.  Generally speaking, replacing the knob and/or tote is going to cost a few bucks.  If you recall our discussion about the Millers Falls 14” jack plane (See page 40, reply 595) you’ll remember that the tote was cracked and I tried to find a correct replacement, but could not.  Sometimes parts just aren’t available.

More than once I’ve cautioned readers to know what they’re looking at and to do their homework when it comes to knowing which parts go on which planes, and to also know that some parts are rare and therefore expensive…..if they can be found at all.  Take a look at the second and third photos below.  The theme of those two pictures is a little spur and accompanying screw.  Several years ago I bought a complete Stanley #444 dovetail plane.  Well almost complete.  It’s got a lot of little parts, and while examining the plane, I missed the spur that attaches to the left side on the main plane body.  Stanley used that little spur on several of their planes, most of which are today considered extremely collectable and scarce.  It was clearly my oversight.  While I trusted the seller, it was still up to me to know what I was looking at.  I missed it, and have had a lot of trouble replacing it.  As a result, I took the spur off of my user #289 and attached it to my #444.  Now the more scarce #444 is complete, but my #289 is missing a spur.  For the last few years, I’ve been “chasing” that little spur and screw.  I did see one on eBay a while ago and bid $30 thinking that would do the trick.  It didn’t.  Looks like someone else made a similar mistake and wanted it more than I did.  I’m still searching.

The forth photo again depicts the Millers Falls jack plane discussed above.  Although I could not find a tote, I did need to find a lever cap.  It cost me about $12.  Finally the last photo depicts a Stanley #180 (See page 33 reply 494).  The plane was also given to me without the depth stop and appropriate hardware.  Eventually I was able to find good replacements for about $25.  That's one of those that might have been cheaper had I just waited for a complete example versus buying a correct depth stop, thumb screw and washer..... and don't forget a couple bucks for shipping.

I’m always happy to receive old hand planes and I’ll continue to take every single one of them always hoping for a gem.  Every now and then I do get lucky.  I’ll show you a few of those too.  For now, however, just remember that free planes usually come with a cost.  If you see a “great deal” at a garage sale, flea market etc. and it’s missing a part or two, know what you're looking at, and think twice before shelling out any money for it…………..

Jim C.  (who does not like chasing parts)         
« Last Edit: January 04, 2017, 12:08:11 PM by Jim C. »
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Offline Jim C.

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Re: Hand Planes
« Reply #644 on: January 02, 2017, 07:08:48 PM »
Additional photos regarding "Chasing Parts" post.

Jim C.
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